Episode 30 - Twitter Q & A (8)

Jaime: 0:00

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice.

Intro: 0:11

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Jaime: 0:29

Welcome to Episode 30 of Two Bored Apes. I'm your host, Jamie, I'm here with my friend and co host Roy. Roy, how are you?

Roy: 0:35

I'm good. I'm full. I literally just had a big meal. Like

Jaime: 0:39

you supposed to do that after the recording but instead...

Roy: 0:42

Yeah, we're gonna... Yeah, we're gonna need to get into all that but just had steak and just a lot of sides. And

Jaime: 0:49

we don't need to talk about the recording but, your dinner? We got to get into that for sure.

Roy: 0:54

I'm well, all things considered. How are you?

Jaime: 0:58

I'm good. This is the eighth Twitter Q&A episode.

Roy: 1:03

First video Twitter Q&A episode.

Jaime: 1:05

True. And let's just hop right in. First question comes from @SteveMiller_PHX...

Roy: 1:10

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa... Twitter Q&A!

Jaime: 1:15

Twitter Q&A! Even though it says our ERC 721A contracts going to be the new standard for Etherium NFTs? Or is there some drawback in the contract configuration that most investors just don't know about?

Roy: 1:34

I'm not a dev, you are not a dev... I don't know if have you heard of 721A?

Jaime: 1:40

I have heard of it. I've basically just heard that there's a new theoretical standard that makes some sort of improvement. But honestly, I don't know what it is. I would assume it'll start taking more, you know, of the share, because I assume that is actually an improvement. But I don't think like when they say the new standard, I assume there will be a 721B at some point where people you know, think of something better. Um, and in general, maybe we'll have just a more like broad and well rounded choice of, of different contracts to go with and you know, they're all basically be NFT's. But there'll be just more specifically designed for whatever you're actually trying to accomplish with that. NFT what you're actually gonna represent and stuff. Yeah. I wish we knew about it, though. Yeah, maybe I can do a quick Google and see if

Roy: 2:37

So 721A came. I think Azuki sort of invented it when they launched their contract. One of the big improvements is that no matter how many NFTs you mint, you pay gas once. So currently, previously, that you'd be paying gas for every NFT. But they figured out some way to make it so you just pay one gas amount. Yeah.

Jaime: 2:59

All the Google results basically just indicates that the major differences Yeah, if you're minting multiple of them, they'll be paying the gas equivalent of minting one basically on an ERC 721. Whereas normally on an ERC 721. You know, if you're going to make one pudgy Penguin, you'd pay point of three and a half or whatever. And if you're going to do two, it will basically scale up exactly what the number?

Roy: 3:22

Yeah. Meta Angels just had the drop today. I minted 10. It cost me $40 in gas. So those are some some amount. So they took they say they use the 721A standard. But yeah, I'm assuming there are other things people are doing to optimize gas. And I don't know exactly how many of those are in the 721A and whether people are going to keep I'm sure people will keep iterating on top of it. Yeah. I as far as drawbacks go. I don't know any. I'm not very Yeah.

Jaime: 3:57

I mean, theoretically, there could be some weird vulnerability, but I, I would doubt that because, you know, when you have open source code, and protocols, you're you're basically only improving. Yeah, because you're you're building off of a solid base rather than trying to rebuild from the ground up where you could mess up. So you know, theoretically, again, neither of us have actually looked into it, specifically very deeply on this. But for the most part, anything that is wrong with ERC 721 A would likely be a vulnerability in ERC 721 already because it's it's 95% the same code or whatever.

Roy: 4:37

Yeah, I shut by the way I just noticed. That's robot four from saga.

Jaime: 4:43

Yep. Looks like a Blitnaut doesn't it?

Roy: 4:47

does look a lot like a Blitnaut. Man I love them. Alright, question two from ArtMis_eth. If you are an NFT artist that wants to... you are in an NFT Artist Jaime. If you are an artist that wants to keep their art affordable. Let's say under 50 US dollars each, as a collector, would you prefer that they deployed to polygon or still deployed through Etherium? And the new advances in low gas contracts change the answer? I feel like you have probably more to say on this.

Jaime: 5:16

Yeah, I probably do I, for me, I would probably be okay collecting on Polygon, especially at that price point as they're saying. But if I can go outside the scope of what they actually asked, I think if, if they are an NFT artist that's planning on selling NFTs for approximately that price, I would encourage them to look into tezos because I think it's probably a better option than either ETH mainnet or polygon. The reason being that, I think there is a market on ETH mainnet for collecting art and there's an art there's a market for collecting art on Tezos, but there's not really one on polygon. So their ability to actually find buyers will be much worse on polygon. So, you know, you have the savings or whatever in the gas for the for the collectors when they're trying to buy and you when you're trying to mint. But if there's nobody there to buy it, it's, you know, what's the point of even making an NFT maybe? I mean, there there still are, but I think for the way we're reading this question, it seems like they're, they're definitely planning on selling it. So you might actually want to look into Tezos where there actually is an active market of people trying to buy cheap, low gas are NFT's. But just to expand on a little bit further. As far as me as a collector I think that as the price scales up I care much more about how durable and decentralized I believe that the chain that it stored on actually is so you know again, at a price point like 50 much more Okay, getting something on polygon or Tezos. But as the price gets higher and higher I'm much more wanted to actually be on eth main net. And just one more thing is if they're thinking about doing additions, rather than one of one's that's a situation where you can use ERC 1155, and then you can still be on ETH main net would have a relatively cheap gas experience.

Roy: 7:30

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that. The part about there being a market on eth main net and Tezos but not in polygon is very onpoint because, yeah, it just for whatever reasons people tend not to value or care about NFT's on Polygon anywhere near as much as Tezos or ETH mean, I think it might be because of like all the spam scam airdrops and like, like, generally stuff that we get collectors get on polygon that have very little value. And so we're just conditioned to think that NFT's on Polygon are not generally valuable unless they're from certain specific gaming projects, primarily,

Jaime: 8:12

right? Yeah, I was gonna say it seems like it's mostly is used for stuff, where scale is really a relevant factor. And so it's used for things like gaming assets, where there's going to be a lot of micro transaction type things. And, you know, also some defi stuff. But as far as, again, our NFT's, it's just doesn't really exist there. Now, theoretically, such a market could emerge. And if you established yourself early on there, that could be quite beneficial. But it's tough to try and create an entire art market, as opposed to just, there's actually already people that care about that.

Roy: 8:51

And presumably, the people have been trying, like polygon has been decently usable for like 8-10 months.

Jaime: 8:57

I mean, I did at the end of abstract of the day when gas was getting so crazy enough mean that I minted like 10 or 15 of the last ones in the project, and there was, you know, obviously, infinite savings in gas for people, but there was just much less people interested in in collecting art there. Alright, our next question comes from @praetor.eth, which was a very high up political position in ancient Rome, so they're probably going to want to read my newest substack posts, which is publishing in seven minutes, which we'll link to in the show

notes. Praetor says: 9:32

How should your NFT investment strategy scale as your bankroll increases? For example, one eth versus 10 eth versus 100 eth. How do you make sure you're making good decisions at greater scale?

Roy: 9:46

It's a great question.

Jaime: 9:48

Is a great question. Um, I would say first off, it just it depends on what you want to do because some people that have 100 ETH, kind of one to just stay near there and grow up very slowly, whereas some people have a never ending pit inside of them, they try to fill with money. And so when they have 100, they want to turn that into 1000. And so you have to think, like, I think sort of implicitly that they're of the mind that you want to be focusing more on growth at a bankroll of one ETH, and more at conserving what you have when you have 100 Etherium. But you know, that that is really up to personal preference.

Roy: 10:32

Yeah, no, yeah, that's an excellent point. And is a huge part of is also how much time are you willing to invest into investing and not not that we give investing advice, but into into, you know, your NFT strategy. And as you as you grow to say, 100 eth bankroll. If you want to continue in that same sort of like aggressive growth strategy that say, a small bankroll, we mint and flip and want to do NFT's, it's just gonna take more time, because you're just gonna be managing more projects. If you think a project is good, and you bullish on it, you know, instead of buying one, two, or three, now for that same sort of reasonable percentage of your bankroll allocation, you're buying 10, 20, 50, 100. And then it takes a lot of time to sell those and sold through them and see what the rare ones are not. So I think just naturally, partially because of that, and partially because of the desire to preserve money and lower risk, as bankrolls go up, the allocation towards blue chips also goes up. And blue chips are just sort of projects that, you know, people are happy to just have and sit on and not really feel the need to actively trade or like, wait for a Gary Vee tweet and sell when it rains pumping. Because a one tweet is not going to significantly change any evil like say, the boy of your club. Yes, of course, certain tweets will affect it a little bit, but it's not like

Jaime: 12:02

a Super Bowl stuff is a big thing people are thinking.

Roy: 12:06

But it seems unlikely that say, I mean, Justin Bieber buys an ape. It's not like there are hundreds of people going alright, gonna get an eight now on. Like, it's so well established. Whereas if Justin Bieber were to buy a cryptomories, or something, so many people go crazy, it's like, alright, so he's got an apes and criptomories and people go nuts.

Jaime: 12:28

So if you just if you think about in terms of how much eth is going to go into the project from the same amount of publicity or whatever. So for instance, again, you say Justin Bieber buys an Ape, and then Justin Bieber buys a cryptomories, let's just assume that that would send 100 ETH of random liquidity into that into that market. In one case, you're gonna have literally one fllor piece plot and in another one, you're going to have this 70 cheapest ones listen, well, that's gonna have a very big difference. Yeah. In the project, whereas the first one is just okay, one crazy Ape was off the floor, you know?

Roy: 13:13

How do you make sure you're making good decisions at greater scale? Is the second part of the question.

Jaime: 13:20

This is not a direct answer to that. But while you were answering just sort of made me think, in general, you're talking about getting 10, 20, 50 pieces now and stuff. All this stuff is a lot easier now than it used to be like if you think about what pranksy, he was doing like early last year and stuff. Like with collection offers and genie and stuff like that. I think you were actually telling me the other day, there's there's another sweeping...

Roy: 13:44

gem.xyz, it's cheaper. I'm pretty sure.

Jaime: 13:47

Better, better gas efficiency. But yeah, that kind of thing. Makes it a lot easier to be able to sort of accurately utilize a portfolio of that size without having to spend, you know, without the time scaling up as crazy as you might think it would. And as it Yeah,

Roy: 14:06

yeah, it pranks, he must have had assistants doing stuff for him because he was buying 1000s of things and listing them in. I don't know, maybe he just did it all manually.

Jaime: 14:17

So how do you make sure you're making good decisions at a greater scale? I think it's probably similar to doing it at all or scaling you know, you have to go into it with open eyes and understanding like, honestly, what are you trying to accomplish and if you don't know what you're trying to accomplish, it's impossible to judge if you're making good decisions in the first place. So you know, again, if you're if you're trying to do more conserving and slow growing at a at a higher scale, you need to be more seriously looking at having not all of your eggs in one basket. You know, we talked about this on maybe the last episode or two ago, but just I had to Much of a percentage of my net worth in YugaLabs stuff. And so I had to sell me and I had one ape, one mutant and two dogs. And it was just, you know, all of that was so valuable. And the rest of all of my NFT's, was basically only equal or something like that to that value. So it just, it was too much. And so I had to take some off of the table even, even though I'm as bullish on that, or more than like any other NFT project, it was just too high of a percentage. And so that's a situation where you're kind of, you know, again, as you're scaling up, you're not necessarily trying to maximize the speed of your growth, because you want to care about the downside a little bit more, because losing half of a one ETH bankroll is probably going to be something that you can recover from a lot easier than losing half of 100 ETH bankroll.

Roy: 15:55

Yeah, one more thought, I guess I have on this is, it's just if you are going for aggressive growth, I guess, it's so much easier for your strategy to be buying into lower priced projects, rather than tying all of your liquidity up in, say, an ape or a couple of mutants, or even a Azuki's or Cool Cats like, it's just it's so much more difficult for cool cats to go from 10 to 100 eth floor than for, you know, a project that's 1 eth to 10 eth just requires so much more capital and 100 to 1,000 is just ludicrous. So it really, yeah, we

Jaime: 16:41

were just saying what the Justin Bieber example, basically, you know, if you if you're just kind of thinking about the total liquidity in the market just kind of moving around, you can kind of visualize or understand how much easier it is to see explosive growth in a small project with the same amount of liquidity moving to it, as with a project that has a very high floor, or even, you know, so a medium high floor, like we might describe something that's three eth right now or whatever versus something that's .2

Roy: 17:12

one last thing I think, I have to say is that I'm starting to think more and more that as your bankroll grows, the correct strategy for a lot of reasons might just be to find like, a small amount of projects that you have a lot of conviction in and go heavy into those. Rather than sort of, like mid last year, the approach is really spray and pray, you could just mint everything. And you know, most things would go up. And the ones that didn't go up, you make enough on the other ones to you know, well more than cover your costs. But now it's there's just so many projects, even so many, like half decent projects that I'm not sure that that is the best approach, financially speaking, but also like, just from a time perspective, just keeping track of all these projects is obviously Yeah, cool. But like if you find three to five projects that you love, you know, buying 20, 30, 50 of them even at like .1, .2, .3 each, you can put like 10% your bankroll into Woody's 10% into Mfrs as 10% into World of Woman from that at this price like boss beauties, you know, something else. And then yes, it's a large allocation like 10 eth into a project is a lot. But if you really believe in it, then it's also a lot easier to hold when it goes up. And like, that's probably another thing to consider when you are when you do have a larger bankroll. I will maybe it's more like how to get a larger bankroll is like holding onto projects when they go up 2x 3x 5x It's very easy, and in many cases, probably the right decision to take profits and sell and get out and put that into another project. But then you do miss out on those cases, getting a Bored Ape from point one to 100 eth. Like most people, understandably sold along the way.

Jaime: 18:59

Right, so when you're talking about like, maybe focusing on something more like only 10 projects instead of 50. You know, that's a situation where when you do that, you're gonna have more pieces from each individual project, which is going to allow you to be able to sell a little bit on the way up and more easily hold some for that moon potential that people talk about. Whereas, you know, if you have one piece from 150 different projects, it's like when do you sell any of them? Yeah, the only way to really know when to sell any of them would be to like intensely follow all of these communities and projects, which is a very impractical thing to do.

Roy: 19:36

And even then, you'd be flipping a coin but

Jaime: 19:38

you're still guessing a lot. Yeah, of course. Okay, for for a podcast that doesn't do investment advice. I think that's a pretty thorough answer to that.

Roy: 19:48

Yeah. @Catenator says any thoughts on...

Jaime: 19:53

I felt like Catenator...

Roy: 19:56

it's how I used to. Okay, anyway, Any thoughts on cool things the POAP's might be used for in the future?

Jaime: 20:04

But we don't want to hear about POAPs. Its been such a torment on our side.

Roy: 20:07

Yeah, we're not doing them on this episode. Yeah, poor Vitor... And poor listeners because it's just a struggle.

Jaime: 20:15

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz they've been disappointed as well. But theoretically, what, what kinds of things could they be used for in the future?

Roy: 20:25

I mean, it could be like, if we go into merch, it could be like, sudden merch is exclusively available, if you have one of these POAP's. It could be...

Jaime: 20:33

custom airdrops... It's, you know, it's whatever. They're just, they're NFT's. And they let us you get to know exactly who has them just by looking up, you know, the the list of holders on etherscan or whatever, I guess it would probably be xDAI scan or something. But regardless, it's sort of the same thing as as any other NFT project in that, you know, we know who owns it. And we know that they're legitimate ones. And so theoretically, you know, you can get gated access, Yeah. And it's not that difficult to just get a list of or things to you via that. And we don't have super specific plans, but it's definitely something that we would like to do if the POAPs had gone better, who probably have put, you know, be continuing to put more thought into how we're going to do that. But you know, we're probably going to be doing something, or likely to do some of our sort of own POAP's on polygon or something like that, because actually using POAP has been very frustrating. eth addresses. And then AirDrop on Polygon, like, right, takes 10 minutes and $5 or something. Yeah. Our next question is from@joeroeth7. Joe says, how to better manage security with being active. Wanting to move some NFT's to a hardware vault, but still want to be able to verify in discord, token gated drops, etc. First thing I would say was be to be able to read and understand the pop ups that Metamask gives you when you're going to sign a transaction, because it's giving you a lot of information. And people are not really differentiating between the different types of transactions that they're, you know, approving and sending and stuff. And so I would say that's, that would be my first one. Because you know, a lot of this stuff that they're that they are specifically talking about being a little bit worried doing with a hardware wallet, and that I see other people on, on Twitter talk about, there's literally nothing to worry about. If you're actually signing the transaction that you think you're signing, like just confirming that I control this, well. Nothing can possibly happen when you just connect to a site like that, you know what I mean? But you might think you're just connecting to a site when you're actually giving approval to so and so if you don't actually know how to read the pop ups...

Roy: 23:03

...to a scam site that looks like collab land. And it basically, if they're asking you to pay gas, just to prove that you own something, that's a big, big red flag, you should never have to do that. Because they can read your wallet basically for free. Yeah. Definitely recommend getting a hardware vault wallet. Basically, anyone that has any sort of significant reasonable type of NFT portfolio or crypto portfolio is so much more secure. But yes, you still need to be careful with what you're doing. I guess probably best practice would be to have your high value assets in a cold wallet and just never interact with any smart contracts ever.

Jaime: 23:46

But that's that's such a flawed idea. Because like, for instance, you had your ape, you just you wouldn't get your mutant and and you wouldn't get your dog if you've never interacted with smart contracts.

Roy: 23:57

Yes, I mean, in theory, you could like transfer it out of that wallet and then back in and then.

Jaime: 24:03

I mean, what's the difference between having it in the secure wallet? And yeah, having in the secure wallet, sometimes it's like there's, you've crossed that threshold. So let's

Roy: 24:12

Yeah, there are people working on really cool things, which will allow you to have your NFT's in one wallet, and then like prove ownership of it from

Jaime: 24:21

I saw someone like that on Twitter, but there was too many tweets explaining it, so I didn't want to read them all.

Roy: 24:27

Yeah, no, I've heard like a couple of different people talk about working on that lately. And it just seems like it's definitely doable technologically and it just seems like something that everyone would want. So um, keep an eye on those.

Jaime: 24:43

Don't rush and getting tricked. You know what I mean? Like so sometimes with these bigger projects, where the main NFT is quite valuable and something you would want to store in a hardware wallet, there are going to be times where you need to interact with that NFT In order to get an airdrop, for instance, although wouldn't technically be an airdrop, if you had to use it, but you know what I'm saying. But like, don't just see a message on Discord and think that all of a sudden it's there and rush into go do it because that's that's where you can get burnt. If you can get just kind of sit back and wait and go, Oh, this, this actually is this, I'm confirming that this is definitely the site, I'm reading what Metamask is saying when it pulls up, that's when you're able to interact with your NFT's that are in a hardware wallet in a way that gets you the value that you can get by interacting with the NFT's while not actually exposing yourself to the danger of just getting really excited and going to you know, mint this thing that you're supposedly on a whitelist for by having this.

Roy: 25:51

Yeah, definitely agree with that. Um, and I guess like to answer the very first part of the question how to better manage security with being active. It all your activity probably shouldn't be on your hardware wallet, you should have your hardware wallet, wallet, which is a vault and your old wallet, they interact with very sparingly. And then a hot wallet, which is what you do your like day to day activity with, if you want to mint something somewhat random, or just like just general trading. I think most people use a hot wallet for that. And obviously, you need to be even more aware of the things you're signing and cognizant off. Because, yeah, but at least protect your high value assets so that in the worst case scenario, your hot wallet gets compromised, your PC gets hacked. Someone gets your seed phrase, whatever ends up happening, they only have access to your like, day to day transactions and funds rather than your high value assets.

Jaime: 26:55

Yep, yeah, true. Next question comes from@floorgangnft says is open sea the way to go? Or should creators actually own their minting contracts? And why? This goes a little bit back to the second question where somebody was talking about being an artist selling inexpensive ones, I would say, the more seriously, you take yourself as an artist and the more you know, effort, and prestige and value or whatever you're putting into the NFT's and you want your collectors put into it, the more you need to be thinking about having your own smart contract.

Roy: 27:34

Yeah, I agree with that. And it's getting so much easier for artists and creators to deploy their own contracts with basically knowing no solidity code, the site's like manifold. And there's even more, you know, coming up,

Jaime: 27:51

I'm giving that as an option now even to mint through. I don't know if you saw that.

Roy: 27:57

I have not seen tracks. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Jaime: 28:01

And I know that's a long time ago that I had asked Nate before he got people, if that was something that they were planning in the future, not specifically with manifold, but with incorporating the ability for artists to have their own contract? And he said, Yes, definitely. So this might be the first iteration of it. Yeah, but I definitely on Twitter, somebody was showing a drop down menu that basically showed like, mint through rarible, mint through OpenSea, mint through Manifold...

Roy: 28:30

Yeah, I definitely think it's the better way to go. Rather than using the OpenSea shared contract. For the most part, the one benefit is that you can use the OpenSea shared contract and not pay gas to deploy your energies. Right? It's, it's like fake creation off limits, it doesn't actually create an NFT on the blockchain, it just creates one that is viewable on their marketplace. And then if someone actually buys it, in that transaction, the NFT is actually created and sent to them. So you don't actually have to pay gas to put some entities and list amenities. And that's, you know, for an artist starting out, if you want to list many pieces, that, that that's got its advantages,

Jaime: 29:13

right. But And now, a lot of artists, myself included, are sort of seeing the drawback to have music because now, you know, a lot of us are on LooksRare. And you can literally see the NFT there, but you can't actually see the art that, you know, the metadata of that NFT is pointing to there. Unless, and I believe this is the technical understanding of it. Unless PpenSea gives looks rare API access, which it seems very unlikely that they would do to their biggest competitor. So you know, anybody that looks at any of my abstract of the days on LooksRare, where you just aren't seeing the image, you can see that an NFT exists there and stuff but you can't actually see the art unless you're over on someplace that has access to open seas API, such as OpenSea. Let's see There's there's other sites as well that you can see it. But you know, again, looks very directly their biggest threat so it's likely that they will do that.

Roy: 30:15

Yeah. Cool. Balding Under 30 @sowutnaow. Is crypto not Silicon Valley enough for us to stop cancel culture from taking over? Or our VCs and PR needs gonna force it upon the space? I don't fully understand that. That question is crypto not Silicon Valley enough. But they're asking is like

Jaime: 30:44

this person doesn't like canceled culture. Yes. Yeah. It's already something that happens in Silicon Valley. Yeah. And was hoping that it wouldn't happen here. But now it feels like they're seeing it happen here. Yeah.

Roy: 30:55

Yeah. That's seems like the gist of it. What do you think, Jaime?

Jaime: 31:01

Um, I think that cancel culture is mostly not a real thing. It's something that people say a lot to describe lots of situations where, in my opinion, people are sort of justifiably facing consequences for their words or actions. And it's, it's thrown around as a term to dismiss actual harm that's been done and actual reasonable discussion of consequences for them. You know, specifically lately, what's happened in this space? Brantley was the big one. But now there's also someone that had something to do a SuperRare. Yeah, that's even more wild. It did. But, you know, so the thing to get into that one, specifically, even though the Brantley one I think is much bigger and has been more talked about the SuperRare one, people are saying, This person got canceled, canceled for tweeting Kanye West lyrics many years ago. And those Kanye West lyrics happen to have the N word in them. And so you know, people are very up in arms, because you should be able to tweet, song lyrics many years ago and not get fired today, which is reasonable, I would say. But also people have shown there's a bunch of tweets from her where she was talking about how much he hates Mexican people and stuff. And I don't think that SupeRare specifically said, hey, you know, this person tweeted, Kanye West lyrics. So we're firing our voice, right, right. I'm more generalised statement about conduct and stuff like that. And so theoretically, could also be referencing the fact that this person is open in their hatred of Mexican people, which I think is more of an issue than just tweeting lyrics from a song lyrics. Yeah. But that's not as good of a story for people who are raging against the concept of canceled culture than it is to just go she got fired for tweeting Kanye lyrics, you know. Do you want to talk about the Brantley? One specifically, yeah, that was much bigger. No, it's a huge thing. Yeah. And has been much more talked about for a few days.

Roy: 33:19

So Brantley was I don't know exactly what his role was head of operations

Jaime: 33:24

Director of Operations, Director of Operations at and also the number one delegate sorry,

Roy: 33:30

yeah, at ens. The Etherium Name Service, which is enormous, fantastic protocol that's been around since 2017. allows people to own a dot eth Ethereum address basically and like connected with the 0xblablabla thing. Plus, they had a lot of other cool they have a lot of other cool things in the works. You can like, I think, merge an NFT with it and have like, and like these websites is doing a lot of cool stuff. But they're primarily known for dot eath addresses. And, yeah, so he was head of operations. And someone I guess, like three or four days ago, found a tweet that he wrote six years ago. That was very, very toxic and hateful. It was like, I maybe I'll pull it up because I don't want to paraphrase it good searching skills

Jaime: 34:35

are not right. Are you worried you're gonna get cancelled? If you read this tweet out? I am really worried. Okay, in the context of quoting,

Roy: 34:44

I think it's okay in the context of that, who was it INDC investor made a tweet yesterday saying, you know, if you have any sort of a following right now, people are combing through your entire history to find Sorry, I'll see you I was like, good luck. Yeah, I'm pretty happy I didn't say anything but I've

Jaime: 35:01

heard that this ain't Ben jam and used to say a ton of problematic shit and has been very, very aggressively cleaning out their old tweets that people will have issues with. And he's been tweeting a lot lately about like, all I can do is try and be better today than it was yesterday, like very vague references to it.

Roy: 35:22

Alright, I found the tweet Brantly.eth said homosexual acts are evil. transgenderism doesn't exist. Abortion is murder. Contraception is a perversion. So is masturbation and porn. May 13, 2016.

Jaime: 35:38

So that tweet was the main flashpoint of it. And then there was just a backlash as people saw that and started talking about it. And then, you know, there's a lot to it. So I'm going to sort of paraphrase. But what happened was, there was basically a big Twitter spaces that he was in, and other people were in where they talked about it. And before that, there was like another tweet where he said, I've got like a mob following me now I've got my first mob. And he sort of referenced the fact that in his profile, the first thing it says is Catholic, and he's like, Oh, I guess people finally read my profile. Yeah. Which is basically to say that I'm Catholic. So of course, I believe these things, which is weird, because we know lots of Catholic people do not have the same beliefs. As a point, also, you know, further in the Twitter space is kind of just doubled down on all these opinions. And then, you know, people continue to be upset that he didn't grow or acknowledge that there was something wrong with it, or whatever. And again, lots more to it in terms of the specifics of the way he may be portrayed, all religious people from the Abrahamic religions, meaning Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, of having identical views, that sort of thing. But, you know, also people then basically, were able to just search for his name on Twitter plus the word like gay, and there's like, hundreds of other tweets, where he's saying lots of terrible stuff, I would say, but you know, other people go smart stuff, godly stuff, or whatever, we maybe their opinion of it. But anyway. So, you know, ultimately, the company that hired him to be director operations, which is something like it's a nonprofit TNL Yeah. Something like that. Ended up firing him. And, you know, people were upset with that people thought maybe. I think part of the problem is that there's an idea that all of this stuff is really decentralized in a way that it's not yet. And so they're thinking like, Okay, if some people disagree, some people don't, some people are in the middle, let's just have a DAO vote, and the DAO can decide what to do. But it was, it was not up to the DAO, ultimately. And so that is sort of against the web three principles that some people feel like we're we're building in an ENS is a big part of, and sort of another side to that same thing is that the the part of it, that's web3 and permissionless. And all that stuff is the protocol itself, which continues to go on and he will be continuing to use if he wants to, or not use if you want to, and none of us can stop him from that. But his hired position at this company, he was fired from. Yeah, I've talked too much all that use case and stuff.

Roy: 38:34

Yeah, I mean, I think we basically covered the gist of it. Of what happened. Let me just read the question. Yeah, I guess there's no real specific question there. Another point that, oh, I was thing I heard it, like, a lot of people were upset that he was removed, and saying, you know, someone shouldn't be removed for their religious beliefs or something like that, which I agree with, but it's sort of when you take those religious beliefs and spout hate, or like, you know, derogatory comments, or like diminishing demeaning comments to others. It's sort of like, you can have religious beliefs, but then you can have this actions and words as well. And I don't know actions and words have consequences. That's the world we live in. Yeah, there was one specific example I remember of an employee or an ex employee who tweeted out talking about how he left working there because of, you know, the environment that it felt just the environment having Brantley involved and he specifically said that, you know, I felt not wanted all this kind of stuff. And so people saying, well, what about this person who got soft canceled or like, I don't like the word canceled either. But

Jaime: 39:52

yeah, I think one thing that I also have a bit of an issue with when people talk about it as a religious thing. In terms of these beliefs coming from his religion, you know that this literal exact same religious texts that are preaching this stuff are also telling you that you can't shave, and you can't eat shellfish and you can't wear clothing of mixed cloth fibers. And it's like, okay, ultimately, if it is his religion that he's being persecuted for, and it is his religious views that he's espousing, then we would have to also see him actually following these other things, which he doesn't. So he's going, Okay, I like the I like the part about God, and Jesus hated me and going to heaven. And, you know, keeping down these minority groups that are historically disenfranchised, but that other stuff that actually inconveniences me, that that stuff I've just done away with, but the parts of it that inconvenience other people, that is my religion, that's when it becomes a thing where it doesn't seem like it's really about the religion, you're just you're picking and choosing the parts of it, in order to subjugate people that are already, you know, persecuted to some degree. Yeah. I agree. Um, yeah, so that's me rambling on. I'm balding under here. I

Roy: 41:19

Probably not. I mean, we are moving more towards fully decentralized. I don't think we'll ever be fully decentralized, but more towards decentralization. But we're so far away from it still. And it's,

Jaime: 41:32

And ultimately, the way that all of this stuff works, if you don't attach your name and your views to an address, you can be all of these things that Brantley hates, or you can be Brantley anything in between, whatever, and you can just interact with all these smart contracts and do all of these things. And, and, you know, then you sort of do have the anonymous, decentralized permissionless utopia, that that people that are really on sort of the libertarian side of the crypto movement, really believe in and that is totally still available to all of us. But once you are getting hired at companies, once you are putting your name on things, once your address is connected to your persona, then then that's when...

Roy: 42:25

you're tweeting to the world.

Jaime: 42:28

you're tweeting to the world, with your identity connected to your eth address connected to your place of work, that's when you have to deal with the realities of the old worlds. And that's part of it. I actually, I'm just gonna say one more thing is that I did a series of three tweets yesterday where I was sort of, you know, because I had, I had been sort of debating a lot with people about all of this and trying to figure out where sort of where the main disagreements were coming from. And I think I sort of boiled it down. So I just want to read what I wrote here. Yeah, I said, I think what I'm seeing a lot in the disagreements here is that there's a camp, I'm in it, that sees the broadcasting and acceptance of prejudiced views as a step on the path to more real harm caused by people with those views, and another camp who thinks that beliefs and speech are one thing, and that those words don't lead to real world violence, unless the speech explicitly asks for real world violence. My understanding of history dictates that it's much easier to engage in large scale violence against minority groups want to establish a society wide belief in the less than status of those groups, and thus, it is worth taking the espousing and normalizing of those views very seriously, and not treating them as distinctly separate from actual threats of violence or violence itself on those groups.

Roy: 43:55

That was very, very well said.

Jaime: 43:57

Thanks. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's, it's still fine to have sort of debates about what is acceptable to say, what is not acceptable to say, what are acceptable consequences, what are not acceptable consequences, but you know, people are very much already have their opinions made. And then when you throw in the way social media algorithms work, and there's only 140 characters, I guess it's now it's 280 on Twitter to get across your things. It's hard to actually have substantive debates about any of the nuance and it's much easier to just go you know, all these people are bigots and all these people just want to cancel everybody and not sort of have anything in between

Roy: 44:45

you can get very incendiary very quickly. All right. Thank you up next.

Jaime: 44:56

@c10s3r_xyz says, what is important for somebody who tries to start his or her own project, excuse me, what should be kept in mind be accounted for etc?

Roy: 45:08

I would just set closer for that name but c10s3r works?

Jaime: 45:15

I'm not good at reading that leet speech. I just had no idea. Whatever. Yeah, yeah, that's Yes. Like hacker speach for closer.

Roy: 45:22

Yeah. Closer, closer. Ah, what is important? So in such a project, which we keep in mind, be counting for

Jaime: 45:29

thats such a broad question like, What is your project?

Roy: 45:32

I am going to be next week, I'm going to be in Dubai for five days, 10 hours a day filming a video course trying to answer this question. And I know that I'm not going to get close to finishing it because there is so much content. I mean,

Jaime: 45:48

it's wait sounds like you should have a better idea of how to start answering it than me.

Roy: 45:53

I mean, we're starting by saying how is the enormous of a question it is to answer. I guess you should think about first and foremost, why you're starting an NFT project and what your goals are and what you're hoping to achieve. A lot of the times people don't really know why they're starting. Maybe it's just they see other people doing anything, that's cool. Maybe they think they can make money. Maybe they take something and say, Hey, that would be cool if that was an NFT, but in reality, it's fine without it being an NFT. And so you make

Jaime: 46:22

a tweet about that the other day about does this thing actually need to be an NFT and I thought it was a good point. But also, I think there is something to, you know, not making something intentionally that doesn't need to be an NFT but about a sort of a serendipitous thing where something that maybe doesn't need to be an NFT. But when you do make it an NFT, like maybe something new happens when you add this to it that you couldn't have predicted until it was at least tried. So, you know, I do want to err on the side of experimentation or or for people to at least not necessarily me. But it is also a, you know, good to keep in mind that like, it's possible that it's sort of obvious, maybe that an idea is actually just going to be worse, as an NFT? Yeah. So to keep in mind why you're doing it?

Roy: 47:22

Yeah, why you're doing it? Probably, if you're trying to sell the NFT to lots of other people, if that's one of your metrics of success. From day one, think about like your marketing strategy, your branding strategy, how you're going to get other people interested in your project. Because the end of the day, it's not that difficult to create launching NFT project, compared to how difficult it is to get other people interested in and want to buy it over the 1000s of other NFT projects out there. So I think,

Jaime: 47:54

depending on your strengths, I guess, right? Yeah, some people might find it easier to do that marketing part, then yeah, and to make it but you know, there, you know, as you're sort of alluding to, there's a ton of supply out there. There's lots of NFT's for people to buy, and they only have so much time and money to research and purchase NFTs. So what is the reason why yours would be one that people would be interested in?

Roy: 48:17

Yeah, unique, unique selling point or something like that? Trying to something unique, interesting, innovative, or take an existing idea and do it better? I mean, these are sort of things that are true in the startup world, just traditional world as well as like, yeah. I think obvious things like keep in mind, like manage your finances, like, think of tax, think of how you're going to survive the bear market. In terms of like, I think this is going to we're going to get into the next question, actually. So I won't go into too much detail about it. But um,

Jaime: 48:57

like, I have an idea of what your plan is to do with the funds raised in the sale, assuming that it's not a free mint, also. But yeah, you need you need to plan ahead. Definitely for like the tax thing. But also you need to be thinking like, is this all going to the project? Are you trying to take some of it? And how is the community going to look at that? And, you know, just what, what, what is your plan?

Roy: 49:27

Yeah, have a plan. And most of the time, you will probably need help, like, many people make a successful NFT project generally. Obviously, there are examples of you know, what

Jaime: 49:40

many people collectively to make it?

Roy: 49:43

Right, right, right. Right, right. Yeah. But, again, if we're talking of like, larger scale projects, PFP projects, gaming projects, anything like that. You just need large teams, you need people to sort of, at the very least be in your discord 24/7. So that when people join, they can get help. And, you know, this space does not sleep, you need probably a dedicated person to handle marketing and dedicated person to handle the discord and community management and a dedicated person to handle the, the, the smart contracts, the development side, the website, the that there are a lot of people, obviously the artists and then like probably a product manager, project manager to oversee the whole thing. And it a lot of different factors go into making a successful NFT project. And I think, again, like six, eight months ago, early like middle of last year, one person could do it, two people could do it, they could whip together something, you know, get a nice website put a decent roadmap together, people would buy it, but now people are thankfully expecting more hoping more and like voting with their more options. Yeah, more options is competition.

Jaime: 50:54

So even if they don't necessarily want more, they have options that have more, so why not go gravitate? Yeah, one, rather than the less effort one? Yeah.

Roy: 51:04

Yeah. Yeah.

Jaime: 51:08

I mean, I would hope that you want to have an NFT project and want to be a part of an NF T project, rather than are going, Wow, the amount of projects that have raised a million dollars selling an NFT is so high, I should do that and get myself a million dollars, like, you know, you got to you got to, are you trying to take advantage of the community? Or are you trying to build it up and build a part of it? You know, because it just might not be worth it for, for you to to try and grab this money that you think is going to be easy and feel good.

Roy: 51:55

I'm going to go to the next question, because it's already ties in @travelixeth says, what are best practices for what to do with the funds raised on a five to 10k PFP project? How much should founders cash out? And on what schedule versus put in the treasury? etc? What are some red flags?

Jaime: 52:13

One thing that I've heard people talk about a lot lately, and you know, sort of directly ties back to, like incentive structures that we see in in existing things is, it can be really nice for people in a project. So again, let's, let's give this example a 10k profile picture project. If you have a team of say, five people that make it, to have each of them, keep four of the NFTs and not take anything out of the Treasury. And then you have to count on the fact that you have a sustaining royalty market and the value of these, some NFT's you kept for yourselves as as the way for it to be a successful project. And then your incentives in the community holders, incentives are aligned. And that that's what people generally want and is also liable to give you the best results rather than going, Okay, I'm gonna raise all this money, we're going to take out 75% of it. And then, you know, the founders of the project no longer really need the project to succeed, to have had a really nice financial windfall from it. And so, you know, that's good for them in the short run, but worse for them in the long run and worse for the community in the short and long run.

Roy: 53:33

I heard a read an interesting tweet thread, I think, by punk 4156 on this sort of topic. He they are very anti, like royalties and anti intellectual property rights and stuff like that. Ironically, they were praising larva labs for what they did with the crypto punks, which was freemint and no royalties, but they reserve 10% of the supply. So 1000 Crypto punks. So if this collection is successful, then they can say sell some of those punks to add to their personal pockets, the Treasury, whatever they needed, right. And the incentives are then aligned in floor price go up and less in secondary market activity and revenue in buying and selling, which Yeah, yeah, I think I mean, at

Jaime: 54:19

this point, that does seem like too much of the supply for a new project to try and hold for themselves. Especially if you had also only had a team of two like larva labs did.

Roy: 54:29

I kept more than 1000 for the Zen Academy. And I'm a team of one but very much,

Jaime: 54:36

Yeah, it's not it's like not your personal holdings. It's for you to be able to distribute as time goes on. You know, like, for instance, in the poker tournament, you have one or two of those a week, every single time The winner gets one, that kind of thing, which is different from just sitting on them, selling them off. So like larva Labs is done in a DMCA in the first version. That's that's all their story.

Roy: 54:57

Yeah. Oh boy...

Jaime: 55:03

what are some red flags? I mean, you know, if the money gets transferred out of the wallet immediately and the discord disappears, that's a pretty big red flag, right? And we we fucking see it happen now, you know, so much. It's like people are learning how to make these projects and make the hype for them. Take advantage of it. Did you see the thread about the Instagram NFT account? It's just an account NFT on Instagram? And how Mark Cuban like oh, yeah, whatever. Yeah, it's a bummer. But that's sort of an example of people who have just learned the mechanics of getting a project that mints out that you don't really support at all in the long run, and don't actually try to build up and so you just are collecting your low seven figure amount over and over and over again. Or high six, I don't really know. To me, yes, those but regardless...

Roy: 55:55

there's also another really cool, not cool, but interesting thread on this same in the same vein, where someone created a project, tons of hype had lots of people in the discord. And then they tweeted out this project is not real. Basically, like, you know, we figured out how to generate this hype and momentum and all Yeah, like frothing at the mouth to men. And we it was just, there was nothing there.

Jaime: 56:19

Yeah, we could have easily just got two to $3 million, from selling this to you. And it was just an example of, we're showing you how easy it is to drum up this interest and make it seem like there there's something real happening behind the scenes or whatever. Yeah, that was a pretty clever thread.

Roy: 56:40

Yeah. Um, how much you'd found is cash out and on what schedule versus putting in Treasury? I think I mean, that varies vary wildly, depending on the project and the goals and whether tax things and stuff like that. But generally,

Jaime: 56:57

I'd say the overarching thing, again, is try to make sure that your incentives as the founder are aligned with the holders. That's ultimately what we kind of all want. And what is most likely to result in a project that is actually successful in the long run. founders and holders.

Roy: 57:14

Yeah, I mean, I'm a fan of projects where the founders basically cash out very little, or Yeah. You know, they put everything back into the project, that project becomes wildly successful, you're investing in yourself, you're investing in your project, you can, if you want to in the future, cash out probably 10 times the amount if it's that successful. Obviously, I think founders should get paid rewarded for their work. If it's a cool project, they've been working 16 hours a day for months and months and are dedicated to continue working, of course, personal profit and reward is sensible. But you know, if you raised $3 million, and then $1.5 million of that goes to the team's personal accounts, and then there's 1.5 left for the project. That seems kind of crazy to me.

Jaime: 57:59

Yeah, definitely. So have you ever heard of like, back in ancient warfare times when, you know, this army sails off to go fight these people and then you land, the generals would then burn the boats. So that way they're amy, the only way for us to succeed here is to actually conquer these people, there's, there's no turning back. That's, that's sort of the the ultimate version of that in an NFT project would be you're just not taking anything out of the Treasury immediately. And you're going, the goal here is to have a successful project, not a successful launch, because there's a difference. And if you reward yourself with the launch, you are basically making it harder to have a successful long term project. But because you are already in a cushy position. Now, you know, you don't need to have the project succeed to succeed if your goal was just to stick some money in your pocket, and in the short term.

Roy: 58:55

Yeah, that's a really cool analogy. One more thing I want to say on this. What are some red flags? I hear this thrown about a lot where people are looking at like a smart contract is minting. And then they see that like the money's being withdrawn, like, very quickly, or like, it's all gone. And they said, that's a red flag. I think that's not and usually not, because I spoke to a bunch of devs with my project, and every single one was said, you should be making frequent withdrawals, just in case there's some random exploit or hack and you know, you withdraw that money. It's not like you withdrawing it straight to tornado,

Jaime: 59:32

it's gone into a tornado, that's a different Yeah,

Roy: 59:34

then you're in trouble. But tornado cash flows, for those that are unaware is like this protocol where you can deposit money and a lot of other people deposit money. And it just like mixes it all up. So no one and then like, sends it out to refresh ether address. And there's basically no trace of where essentially

Jaime: 59:49

it's like a money laundering protocol. Yeah.

Roy: 59:53

And but yeah, I mean, if you're just withdrawing money from the contract to another ether address to an exchange somewhere, even if you withdrawing it and then instantly converting it to USDC. That's not a red flag. That's in many cases smart because the what, like a lot of the world runs on USD, right? Like if you need to pay employees develop a game, whatever you're building account for taxes. There's lots of valid reasons for that. So I mean, that to me is like a real, almost no looking font that I see all the time. Uh huh.

Jaime: 1:00:22

You want to look, I would say at the the messaging versus the actions. And if there's if there's an incongruence incongruent then you know that that's a red flag. But if if what they're doing with the funds is in keeping with what their plans were, then that's, you know, yeah. All right. I think we've answered that. CryptoKween @twEATter44 says, Do you think that a rise in ethereum prices will cause an NFT bear market? Or will one eth equals one eth help the NFT market for a market trend untied to that of Etherium? Now this is something that we've covered a lot in like our previous episodes that had some q&a? Because it's just it's it's a general question that comes up a lot. Excuse me, you're more concerned about. And ultimately, my thing is that I think the NFT market in lower priced projects is basically inversely correlated to use of the Ethereum network. So if prices are going up or down a lot, and that's causing a lot of people to just put in transactions for defi, they're trying to get long, they're trying to get short, they're liquidating, they're hedging any of that activity that comes a lot when the market is moving rapidly in either direction. That means that gas prices are going up, which is very prohibitive for the smaller projects. And I always feel like that is bad for them. And I think in general, prices of eth going up or down is not as strictly correlated with just the pricing in eth of NFT projects at all, it has more to do with on the lower end of the spectrum, when when the market activity and thus gas prices goes up. That's that's what's really bad for the lower end projects to me. Because, you know, again, in the time we've been around, which is sort of a long time, but sort of not, because NFT's are new or whatever. We have seen s go up a lot. Well, like all of the main projects, prices also went up in eth. And we've seen sort of all of the combinations of the for ETH going up, eth going down, NFT prices in eth going up and NFT prices and etg going down. We've seen all the combinations of that is four of those technically combinations. But but the trend that I see continuing, again, is the one that has to do with gas prices and cheaper projects, undercutting the floor, because it's just harder to find buyers at that at that moment.

Roy: 1:03:11

Yeah, no, I pretty much agree with that. I think that there is some correlation with high eth prices and lower. And like, you know, prices of NFT's in eth not going up as much as if eath was staying the same or like dropping. It just seems to be like a new market participant coming along to buy a I'm not gonna say what a let's say a Robotto's is or something at one eth. If that is if they have to convert four and a half 1000 US dollars to buy that versus 2000 US dollars to buy that it makes it so much easier for new market participants to enter at that price point, especially if they've been like on the sidelines looking at Oh, I like that project. I have the budget can't afford it. And then all of a sudden it becomes cheaper.

Jaime: 1:03:59

Right? Yeah, I think like the new buyers are coming in with a, an amount of Fiat in their mind that they're ready to invest in NFT's. And so in that sense, it can definitely affect it. I would say like, you know, when you have basically flat eth prices, that's when it would be sensitively easiest for you to just be able to gauge the NFT market on the strength of the NFT's because you don't have that underlying volatile asset that everything is priced in that people also have to you know, worry about whatever.

Roy: 1:04:30

I basically always seem to say and think that I think when eth is like trending sideways, that's like the best for NFTs because generally it means gas isn't going crazy. And it means that it just sort of gives NFT's space and time to shine. People anchor the price of like eth/USD in their mind and they comfortable with it and they're not worrying about oh, I should sell my NFT because it's going to it's about to pop because it's been going a few percent each day for the last week or I should Sell my NFT because it's gonna tank and sell the eth, because eth is going to drop and all this other stuff. If it trades sideways for a while, I think that's when NFT's do flourish. And I think as time goes on, we'll see like less of a correlation just as the NFT market matures.

Jaime: 1:05:15

That's where I wouldn't want it to get I saw you you tweeted, I think today, maybe actually also, this is adjacent. But you're basically saying that you saw the NFT marketplace, as a whole is moving less in lockstep, and you're seeing a little bit more of, you know, it's not the NFT market is going up or the NFT market is going down, you're seeing this project is going up this projects going down, this is stagnating to where people are sort of discerning and separating them from each other, which is nice. And I think also sort of the logical extension of that is seeing the NFT marketplace overall, becoming less correlated with the underlying asset of Etherium. Yeah. But ultimately, sorry, it just at this point, it's all still very much crypto native participants, or people who are just starting to dabble in crypto, in which case, you know, so the people that are very crypto native have a huge percentage of their net worth in crypto on average, and so are more just prone to feeling something when things go a long way or are prone to justifiably make a reaction when prices go big one way or the other in crypto. Or, you know, conversely, the newer people that are just getting into crypto, where if they see any volatility, they're not as used to it probably as the other people. And so even though they have less of a percentage in there, they might be scared off easier.

Roy: 1:06:42

Mm hmm. Yeah. Alright, last question britch.eth @britchkow

says: 1:06:49

Could you talk about Jaime's recent Hirst acquisition and the game theory of whether to burn or not? You bought a or... yeah, you received a currency by Damien

Jaime: 1:07:02

I bought it.

Roy: 1:07:03

You bought it, but it was like someone accepted your bid. It was like eat and market buy it. You? Yes. Yeah. Okay. One of your office? One? Yeah. You had an offer accepted? Three and a half eth? I think

Jaime: 1:07:14

yes. Which was a good price, considering for the floor is right now.

Roy: 1:07:19

Probably talking about what he wants since the beginning of this podcast or...

Jaime: 1:07:24

yeah, it's definitely been been one that I've been looking I mean, you know, initially it rocketed up. And it was just, it's at my price range, but then it slowly trended down. And I and I've wanted one for a while. And I kind of wasn't expecting to get this, I had almost forgotten that I made this collection offer on LooksRare, which, by the way, just shout out to them. Because, honestly, you know, I sort of acquired it in theoretically, the same way that I used to get a lot of my art blocks where I'm just bidding on a lot of the ones that I want. But when I would do that, with like elementals, or fidenza, is when I sadly, tried to get them, I would go through the entire collection. And I would open up a new tab on every single one that I liked a little bit, and digit. And it would take fucking literally hours. And for this on LooksRare I said, Make collection offer 3.5. And I did this two weeks ago or something and just forgot about it. And then I woke up, not woke up, but logged on to my metamask or whatever yesterday and was like, Well, what happened on my money and then looked at it? Yeah, that I got it. So just so awesome. How much easier that is. Now back to the question. Talk about the acquisition, I guess we did that. So that that was actually to the question out of the game theory, though, of whether it's important or not. So for people who don't know, Damien Hirst is a super famous established artists in the traditional art world, and made this NFT project called the currency and there's 10,000 of them. And at the end of July, I believe is the end of this. There, these are physical pieces of art that they've created. I say they because he has a bunch of assistants and actually do a lot of the work. Rather than him handling it all. Anyway, there's 10,000 of them. And each one is now basically represented by an NFT and every owner of the NFT has the option to burn the NFT and receive the physical artwork or keep the NFT and the physical artwork will be burned. And so you know, just from a simple supply and demand situation, if you assume that demand for both is equal, then you know the game theoretically correct choice, if you're only worried about monetary value would be to keep whichever one less of the market is going to have. There's obviously some layers of complexity to it that go beyond that, for instance, it's going to be easier to verify the authenticity and sell the NFT, then it would mean to sell the physicals as a, for instance, but also your, you know, its art, and you have to get into, you know, the non financial side of it, do you want to keep the physical as a piece of art? Or do you want to keep the NFT as a piece of art, that's a whole other thing. But in terms of the game theory, it's pretty simple, because there's only two decisions. And the market goes, you know, making this decision means you can't make this decision. And the supply of this one means you it's just zero sum. Yeah, there's 10,000 total. And it's going to be split amongst NFT's and physicals. So ultimately, if if you are trying to do it from a financial game theoretic sense, the best option would be to just basically wait as long as possible, and see which way the market is going and try to be on the minority side. Because then you are on the side that has a much smaller supply.

Roy: 1:10:54

Yeah, I think you've thoroughly covered that. What about like Game Theory aside? I mean, just like personal preference, I guess, have you thought much about what you would prefer?

Jaime: 1:11:06

You know, a lot of people I tweeted about how I got it yesterday, and that was the number one question I got. My plan right now is to take possession of the physical. And mainly just because I have a great NFT art collection right now. But I have a very limited physical art collection. So to me, it just seems like it would be nice to bulk up the physical side of that. And also, like, you know, a lot of the NFT art that I have, I would like to get prints made of them various artblocks and stuff like that, I'm definitely going to do it with my fragments of the infinite field wants to have a full collection. Actually, that's the other thing that I've been talking about incessantly I wanted the Hirst and the autumn fragment yet still haven't got the autumn fragments. But now I got the Hirst anyway. Because this is an actual physical piece of art. You know, the original in a very true sense is the physical, whereas, you know, something like fragments of the infinite field, the true original is the NFT. And so there's something nice about actually keeping the original in both of these instances. But also, if you actually look at the the Damien Hirst, maybe we could do a screen share of this.

Roy: 1:12:22

Yeah, do you want me to pull up yours?

Jaime: 1:12:26

No, I want you to pull up yours.

Roy: 1:12:29

Okay.

Jaime: 1:12:31

Just because you're more technologically savvy here.

Roy: 1:12:35

Yep. I can pull up your basically.

Jaime: 1:12:38

My Damien Hirst. Yes. Yes,

Roy: 1:12:43

you do. Okay, I found mine, but I'll find yours now.

Jaime: 1:12:46

It's the same one. You are not the same one. But you can see what I'm talking about with either one.

Roy: 1:12:51

Well, now I'm well entrenched. Is it in yoour vault?

Jaime: 1:12:55

Yeah, it's called the limelight though. You could also just search for that as the asset name.

Roy: 1:13:02

Got it looks like it. Jaime Musings vault screen looks

Jaime: 1:13:08

rare. It gives you much better. Image quality I find then open soon. I don't know if you've noticed that. But when you click on them, you're getting higher resolution there.

Roy: 1:13:23

I had not noticed that. But there we go.

Jaime: 1:13:27

Yeah. And so, you know, you can see that there's a good amount of texture, and especially if you did what I said and went to higher resolution one. But you know, with something where you can literally see the three dimensional scale of the of the, of the paint on there, the texture of it. That's the kind of thing where, you know, there's a little bit something extra to having the actual physical, then then to have the, you know, flattened digital version of it.

Roy: 1:14:02

Does this work? Is it Yeah, I'm sharing my screen. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Jaime: 1:14:06

Yeah. And they're not particularly big. So it's not like, yeah, like a postcard, right? No, but more like a, like a computer paper paper, basically something like okay, guys. So it's something that you can put on a wall without really needing a giant space for it, which is nice. It's also a thing where, you know, I would be more likely to keep the NFT if we were again, this is something we talked about a lot. If we were in a situation where digital frames were more advanced. I would be more happy to but we're getting maybe the best. Yeah, we are. And actually, I've seen a couple people have these on their TVs and they do look quite nice. Where you're basically just using like one of those Samsung TVs as a frame. But yeah, I'm not certain what I'm gonna do, but I'm definitely leaning towards the physical right now.

Roy: 1:14:59

Cool. Let me stop sharing this, I, I have one as well, I have not thought a lot about it, my plan was for a long time to just sort of do the game theory thing and sort of like, see, if there's a big discrepancy do go the other way, with a slight lean towards the physical because again, for similar reasons would be cool to have a physical, traditional piece of art. And then more recently, it's my plan is just to buy another one because I'd like emotionally come into all this ether lately, and it's not a crazy option.

Jaime: 1:15:32

And the price is like not crazy compared to where they went crazy for all you know what I love so seeing on Twitter when I tweeted about it, at a lot of people interacting with it and stuff. And several people contacted me responding, who are basically saying, you know, their traditional art collectors, they got into this project, because it's Damien Hirst, and because they wanted a physical Damien Hirst, and they've just fallen down the NFT rabbit hole. And and humorously, these traditional art people who were sure that they were just doing it to get the physical are now planning on keeping the NFT in me who's basically NFT natives are going I think I want to keep the doors open. I thought that was really fun. But also so cool that, you know, he's onboarding these traditional people. And they're going wow, this is actually like a much more interesting, compelling space than I had realized.

Roy: 1:16:26

Yeah. I'm very tempted to buy the floor one now, 4.2 eth.

Jaime: 1:16:32

But on LooksRare or on open?

Roy: 1:16:35

It's 4.7 on LooksRare, 4.2 on opensea. Yeah. Yeah,

Jaime: 1:16:40

I mean, it works for me. Yeah,

Roy: 1:16:43

it's a cool idea. It's

Jaime: 1:16:44

it all it's sort of an interesting project where like, it's intentional, that they all look very similar. So it's one where a collection offer to me is much more reasonable than like, there's a lot of artblocks projects where the difference between how much I like the nicest one in the collection to you know, nicest to me versus the least nice to me is humongous. Whereas in this project, it's very minimal. And so I felt you know, super happy to make a collection offer on it.

Roy: 1:17:14

Yeah. Alright, Jamie, it's that time to play that game.

Jaime: 1:17:20

I thought we weren't doing it here.

Roy: 1:17:22

We're not doing the POAP but I want to play

Jaime: 1:17:29

I got a word.

Roy: 1:17:31

I got a word too... 3, 2, 1...

Jaime: 1:17:40

Television

Roy: 1:17:41

Webcam. That is we got very close. Almost too close.

Jaime: 1:17:53

Almost too close because we do that a lot don't we? Okay, I got one.

Roy: 1:17:58

I see two obvious answers.

Jaime: 1:18:00

Id two and I'm sure we can't say any three to one. Video.

Roy: 1:18:07

Laptop.

Jaime: 1:18:08

Oh, that was not what I was. I was just thinking camera but that seemed too similar to webcam. Yeah, laptop and video. Okay, I got something here

Roy: 1:18:23

Sure.

Jaime: 1:18:25

You're not gonna get it without like a 3, 2, 1... Graphics cards.

Roy: 1:18:31

Movie

Jaime: 1:18:33

graphics card and movie. Okay, I got one 3, 2, 1... CGI

Roy: 1:18:41

monitor

Jaime: 1:18:43

you're staying in the same space so monitor and monitor okay

Roy: 1:18:58

graphics card would be really good for this one.

Jaime: 1:19:02

Mm hmm. I hate when we get to this point.

Roy: 1:19:06

Oh, I have a great idea I'm a genius Jaime

Jaime: 1:19:16

CGI and monitor Yeah. I got to think of something quick because this is an unacceptably long 3, 2, 1... animation

Roy: 1:19:31

mushroom. That's crazy. I was gonna say animation.

Jaime: 1:19:39

Mushroom?

Roy: 1:19:40

But then I was like, You know what to close let me just go completely normal. And then you know, we'll have a new start. Animation. Oh, I was gonna say like, animated animated. But I guess

Jaime: 1:19:54

it would give I can't believe you just said that. Oh, yeah. Mushroom and animation and then I got something for Animation.

Roy: 1:20:01

Oh, I don't Ah, sure. I got something

Jaime: 1:20:05

3, 2, 1, Mario.

Roy: 1:20:08

Yes, I did it!

Jaime: 1:20:11

Yes, we got it.

Roy: 1:20:12

Mushroom for the win!

Jaime: 1:20:14

if if we were doing POAP's that would be the word but we are not because it has been terrible for us for, for listeners and for Vitor. So until we get that straightened out. We're not going to do it, unfortunately.

Roy: 1:20:26

Yeah. But yeah, there's nothing we get in another successful.

Jaime: 1:20:31

Twitter Q&A. Episode 30 in the books. Yep. Read my new substack posts that just came out today. I will have a link in the show notes.

Roy: 1:20:42

Mm. Oh, and what this is on YouTube. If you're listening to it, then yes, we will hopefully have a link to the YouTube in the show notes, but maybe not depending on when it goes out. But

Jaime: 1:20:52

we can at least have it linked to the channel. So even if Yeah, yeah, we'll do that and it'll be easy to find because it's a new channel. There's only like three videos. So the fourth one basically, yeah. Cool. Thanks for listening. Tell a friend. Rate us all the good stuff. Bye.

Roy: 1:21:09

Bye.

Intro: 1:21:14

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh