Episode 8 - The One With a lot of Q's and A's

Jamie: 0:00

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice. On this week's episode of Two Bored Apes we talk about Twitter verifying NFT's, the Bored Ape Yatch Club roadmap 2.0, various upcoming and recent artblocks projects. We do a Twitter q&a, we get an update on Roy's one eth challenge, and we talked about my abstract of the day project. two days. Talk te d random stuff Welcome to Episode Eight of to vortex. I'm your host Jamie and I'm here with my co host and friend Roy. Roy. How are you doing?

Roy: 0:56

Excellent full of energy full of beans. Fantastic.

Jamie: 1:00

Beans. That means you're lying in America. Really? Yeah.

Roy: 1:04

No, it means full of energy and, you know, English.

Jamie: 1:09

Huh? I'm impressed that we got into this quick clip. Genuinely happened organically. Okay, so why are you so energetic?

Roy: 1:18

Well, I'm moderately energetic. But before we started recording, Rachel was saying how maybe I should not have a big meal and have a coffee before because I apparently wasn't as energetic in the last episode.

Jamie: 1:30

I just had a coffee because we were going over our plans for the episode. And it this looks like it's gonna be a long one.

Roy: 1:37

Yeah. We just had a two and a half hour episode. And now we're going yeah, this is gonna be like

Jamie: 1:42

it should be longer. Yeah.

Roy: 1:44

We got to pay audio engineer more, I think.

Jamie: 1:47

Yep. He's, I can't tell if he likes that or not.

Roy: 1:52

likes what?

Jamie: 1:54

More work but also more pay? Yeah. I don't know the ins and outs of his work life balance, you know? Yeah. Okay, what's let's get into the podcasts that we're ostensibly recording right now. Let's start off with the news of the week. Right.

Roy: 2:12

Okay. So we've written down? Well, I guess we think is the news of the week, there's obviously been lots of news in the NFT space. But to me, what has stood out is that Twitter basically announced without making an official announcement, but you know, they tweeted that they're looking into implementing sort of a verification process for NFt's on their platform. So instead of just having a JPEG as your profile picture, you will potentially be able to have your NFT wallet linked to your Twitter account, and then like maybe like a blue checkmark effectively, but for your NFT to say, hey, you actually own this JPEG. So someone else can't just right click, say even use this. And yeah, what do you think of that news that's coming out?

Jamie: 2:59

It's super interesting. I think they also added Bitcoin tipping or said they're going to Yeah, but because Bitcoin, not me. But that seemed like that was like an official statement. Whereas I think the only thing I actually saw about NFT thing was somebody tweeting out them to ask and then like whoever runs their Twitter's Twitter responded with like, a SpongeBob Square Pants meme saying they'll look into it or something. Was there something more official than that? No, no, that was about the level of it, but Okay, yeah. And we all just ran with it.

Roy: 3:36

Yeah. Wait, yeah, Twitter tweets, like, you listen,

Jamie: 3:39

right? That's, that's two levels. Um, no, I think it's a very legitimising thing. And, like directly sort of counters, one of the most common refrains from people that are not into the concept of NFT's, that you can just right click save them. I mean, obviously, you can save the image file. But as we have had to explain to a lot of people, that's not the same as owning it. And as far as you know, utilizing it as part of your online persona, it seems like maybe social medias are going to actually start adding that level of verification to it, which is very cool. And, you know, we can definitely envision how it works as we've had to connect with our Metamask to all sorts of websites, where ownership of a specific NFT gives you access to it. So we personally and lots of our listeners, like can already very easily see how it works. Whereas, you know, I guess a lot of people might, who don't understand NFT's well enough or web three wallets well enough doesn't necessarily know how that would work.

Roy: 4:45

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's going to become more commonplace as more people have a Metamask wallet, and it's just basically just like an app or an extension in your browser that lets you connect your wallet and its contents to a website, you know, without giving access to They can just see what you own and verify that you own them. One of the bits of sort of criticism or like, questioning about this thing is that people were saying, how are they going to prevent people, right click saving an image, and then just uploading it as a new NFT. Because anyone can create a new NFT and then putting it in their wallet, and then Twitter will verify, hey, they have an NFT, they own this one. This is legitimate. And sort of like the one way

Jamie: 5:30

around seemed like a very good argument to me. Why? Well, because like, for instance, if you're talking about punks, or eight, when they're verifying it, they can verify it down to the contract level and go,

Roy: 5:42

Yeah, but then the other issue that people were raising is then that introduces, so like a whitelisting process where a Twitter decides, alright, which contracts are going to be allowed to be verified, and people would just Yeah,

Jamie: 5:54

but then we'll make your own decentralized social media. If you have an issue with that.

Roy: 5:58

Yeah, yeah. So my rebuttal is basically the same. Yeah, like we live in a centralized world. And there's going to be a lot of intermingling between centralized and you want

Jamie: 6:08

a giant corporation to not be a centralized entity? I don't know what to tell you.

Roy: 6:13

Yeah. I mean, I yeah, I think it'll be fine and good. And a massive net positive for the space.

Jamie: 6:20

Yeah, I think it's it's a it's a great idea. Yeah.

Roy: 6:24

I think that was the big news of the week. Yeah,

Jamie: 6:27

that was the biggest one in May.

Roy: 6:30

I mean, China came out with some thought about crypto. Yeah, that's what happens. I

Jamie: 6:34

like it. When people compile all the headlines, were just because as you and I both know, every single season once a season, basically, we get a headline, just like this up China's ban and everything. Again, there's one from 2017, that that is almost identical that people have been passing around. Yeah. But yeah, that that China, to me seems very much like, they want to have control, they have a giant population. And so they need to have a large amount of control. Because if you get 1.8 billion people just getting a little bit upset. That's a whole Yeah, shitstorm. So you need a lot of cohesiveness and compliance. And, you know, Kryptos are a destabilizing thing to, you know, the existing structure of nation states or whatever, so I can understand why they would be against it. And it also kind of, like, I feel like the US political system is also pretty against them. But if China can continually come out against them, the way our politicians portray China directly as our adversaries, that will sort of almost force America to either be like China, who they say is bad, or be more open to crypto, which would actually be good for, you know, us and crypto and I guess theoretically, America in the world, because it's to me, it's it's such a transformational technology, it's like it's a genie that is out of the bottle, and it's not going back in the bottle. So you can play whack a mole, you can, you know, completely make every interaction with all of it illegal in your country, and what only other countries benefit from it, whatever you want to do. But it blockchain technology is not going away. So I think the countries that can understand that, and then look to see how it can, you know, integrate within the framework of their societal structure are going to succeed rather than the ones that just kick the can down the road or pretend like it's something that they can just ban and it'll go away?

Roy: 8:47

Yeah, a lot of people say that the crypto space or the NFT space now is sort of like the internet in the 90s. Where, I mean, it was very near a lot of people were figuring it out. And, you know, countries were trying to figure out how to incorporate it. And then China, obviously came out with what we now know, as the big firewall where they, you know, they try and control the internet. And they effectively do it to some extent, but the Internet didn't stop. It didn't go anywhere. It was out there. It was a way for people all around the world to connect, share information freely. And yes, you know, in the 90s, it was the wild west in the early 2000s was still a bit of the Wild West. And you know, countries have come out with more and more regulation. And you know, European Union has certain laws on data, privacy, etc, that other countries don't have and they all this kind of stuff is developing and countries of incorporating the Internet into the ecosystem, but the Internet didn't go away. It was never gonna go away. It's not ever gonna go away. Blockchain entities etc. The same thing that it's never gonna go away. Countries will try and regulate one way or another just varying degrees of success. I mean, in the absolute worst case scenario, maybe this all dies somehow. But I find that hard to believe, just because of how revolutionary the tech is.

Jamie: 10:13

Yeah, I don't, I don't see how we can die entirely. It in a totally theoretical sense, I could envision sort of a world where just, I mean, and this is hard to do, because there's so much adversarial ness to all these types of relationships. But theoretically, if like, all the big countries, and all the big companies decide this is just too dangerous for us, you know, they can really clamp down on the existing existing stuff in a way that makes it all shrink to just a tiny, tiny fraction of what it is. But, you know, the hardcore people will still be using it and still be building new stuff. And it's just it's it's it's not a thing that you can Exterminate. And it's, it's so beneficial in so many ways that the places that do allow it to continue to use are going to leapfrog in so many ways. You know, the territories that are, are acting like it's something that can't be used.

Roy: 11:19

Yeah. And also, thought just went out of my head.

Jamie: 11:23

That's too bad. All right. This is a great

Roy: 11:27

segment. No, no, hang on. Give me Give me five seconds. Let me try to think of it. Okay.

Jamie: 11:34

I wish I could do the Jeopardy theme. But I do doo

Roy: 11:36

doo doo doo. Is that the Jeopardy theme?

Jamie: 11:38

Yeah, the Final Jeopardy theme, you need to be thinking of, of what you're thinking of?

Roy: 11:42

I do. So we're talking about countries and not group is just come up and she's bothering me. Alright, let's move on. Oh.

Jamie: 11:51

All right, our next segment, we're going to talk about the Bored Ape Yatch Club. What? What happened in the Bored Ape Yatch Club since we last recorded, right?

Roy: 12:00

Um, they announced or revealed roadmap 2.0. Which, yes, is Big news. Big, big

Jamie: 12:09

news. They've been talking about it for a long time. We all been excited about it. You know, we've previously on this podcast talked about how we had, you know, the first auction, which was, let me think here quickly saw the bees. And then we had the treasure hunt. And then we're having Christie's and then we knew we were getting 2.0. And just like they said, it has happened, and they finally revealed it. And I personally thought it looked awesome. I'm very excited about multiple segments of it. I'd like to hear your thoughts. And then we can get into the specifics for people that don't actually know what it said. I'm going to actually pull up the exact image too.

Roy: 12:48

Yeah, I just did that. So yeah, this is something that they have basically announced since very early on in the pipeline, something they've been working on. And they had like roadmap one, which was everything we've seen up till now. And then roadmap 2.0 When no one really knew what they were talking about, except that we were excited for it. And, yes, it they revealed it. They basically just made a Twitter post with an actual map at like, almost like a treasure map or just a map with a bunch of images and words saying, well, there's

Jamie: 13:18

a treasure map on the map, share this for many levels. And I

Roy: 13:22

will post a link to it in the show notes so people can see well, what the roadmap is, but it has all sorts of fun little things. Like there's they've announced the first annual eight Fest in New York from the end of October the first week of November. And that's sort of week long. That's a long time. It is a week long. It sort of coincides with NFT NYC this conference happening right around the same time, but I think I might have to go to this. Yeah, I'm I'm almost certainly going to it like I was I was in two minds about going to NFT NYC I was like, you know, 5050 but this certainly makes it like 9010 that I want to want to be there. Um, yeah, it just it looks cool. What's What are some of the things you're excited about?

Jamie: 14:10

Okay, so you mentioned the eight fest that's maybe like the fourth most exciting thing to me, honestly. There's the probably the biggest one is the Miami clubhouse. Yeah, they're there. It seems like they're building or buying an actual clubhouse in Miami. And then, you know, again, we're just looking at a picture. And literally for that part of it, it just says Miami clubhouse IRL and then shows what appears to be basically a tiki bar. So we don't know any specifics of what it's going to be. Is it permanent? Do you need an ape to enter what like, what is it? But it's some sort of in real life clubhouse in Miami. So that's awesome. They announced an official Dao for the Bored Ape Yatch Club ecosystem. Which I guess to them means Bored Ape Yatch Club, Bored Ape Kennel Club and then Bored Mutant Yatch Club. So those two were probably the biggest to me it was the clubhouse and the DAO, but also they they have on here top secret blockchain game. And again, it says be a YC ecosystem. And the picture for that one is just a black rectangle, and it says redacted on it. So they're trying to give out very few details about that. But, you know, to to gamify, this all is something that is potentially very exciting to me. And I think something that people have talked about as a big potential use case for the dogs for a long time. And then there's some other stuff that I'll let you talk about.

Roy: 15:47

Yeah, I mean, I think the the clubhouse is the most exciting to me as well. And and probably the, the blockchain game is second most exciting. But they have something called the BA yc. Mutant ma yc. Mobile competition. I don't really know what that is. But there's sort of like, a phone with a play on it. So maybe there's a mobile app coming out? Yeah, it looks like

Jamie: 16:10

there's gonna be maybe like a fighter game or something. Yeah, with apes versus mutants or something.

Roy: 16:15

There's something called the trayzell Hunt. And there's a big map with excellence or another treasure hunt.

Jamie: 16:20

That was so fun. I'm super excited that you're doing another one of those. Yeah.

Roy: 16:24

And then they actually they say, in the bottom left, not listed collabs partnerships and dope shit, we don't want to be front run on. And I mean, all that sounds just for a lot of projects, their entire roadmap would be collabs, partnerships and some dope, right. And this is just a side little thing in the bottom corner. But I'm excited to see what that's gonna be because they've basically never disappointed me with any other announcements or their execution of their announcements, which is a difficult thing to do, because of how hyped they often are.

Jamie: 16:54

Yeah, or our execution of the things in the announcement. Yeah. There's also this nd versus MMI thing that shows up three different times on here. So that as far as like the storytelling of the Lord, that seems to be the biggest thing, and they're giving us very little information about it. But you know, people on Twitter, were talking about what it means. And if you're looking at the image, and some of the previous stuff they've teased, it seems like MD stands for MEK dog. And then MMI is maybe mech mute in invasion is what people have been guessing the most, I think, but I am really curious and sort of excited about that. I don't know what it's what its gonna be. Is it going to be an animated show a movie, a comic book, or something else entirely? Excuse me, it almost seems like the kind of thing that they could do like, like a fortnight partnership with because they're, they do like a lot of interesting interactive storytelling inside of fortnight. I've never actually played or taking part in it, but it is something I know about. But I think they probably would have specifically said so. Um, if that was what it was going to be. But but who knows?

Roy: 18:06

Yeah, man. It's so exciting. Just the positive. It really is. A crazy they have this thing. Also sandbox Miami 2035 Plus NBA YC v x apes. So VX is probably voxel apes sorta like these. Right? 3d voxel avatar.

Jamie: 18:25

voxel is basically just the three dimensional version of a pixel. Yeah. And well, no. Yeah.

Roy: 18:31

So like they announced be giving us 3d models of apes. And now they're sort of it seems like they're announcing we're getting voxel models of apes as well. Right.

Jamie: 18:40

So the Do you think that they're sort of theoretically saying that this thing that we're going to do in Sandbox, Miami 2035? Is what we aspire to grow the in real life thing too, by the year? 2035? Like, is there a subtle implication that that's what's going on?

Roy: 19:00

Maybe, yeah, I mean, I don't understand what else 2035 could mean, other than

Jamie: 19:05

Well, I, to me, that seems like it's just supposed to sort of be a futuristic thing. Because, you know, it's it's existing within this virtual reality called the sandbox. Yeah. One other thing I wanted to say, I don't know if you saw this, but people were saying they applied for like a bunch of trademarks or copyrights. I don't, I'm not good at that legal stuff, but for like a bunch of different products. Did you see that? I didn't know. Yeah, so they're, like, get it. Again. I wish I knew the actual words for what they did. But they basically are securing legal legally, the ability to you know, enforce their IP in all these different different form factors, I guess. Yeah. So they definitely have like a bunch of people. plans for merchandising and stuff like that?

Roy: 20:05

Yeah, that really, I mean, the during the due diligence, they've got a proper, clearly legal team, you know, everything is seemingly aboveboard by the book, which is what you want from, I mean, because it's such a wild west space, and there's so many projects, promising crazy things and trying crazy things. And, you know, then they get halfway down the roadmap, and then they talk to them lawyers and the lawyers like, oh, you can't do any of this. Oh, you shouldn't have done that. Yeah,

Jamie: 20:32

but Voxer do said to us, yeah, that

Roy: 20:35

Deuce Deus.

Jamie: 20:38

No. Good. Let's not get sidetracked. Okay. This is funny that the so the roadmap came out, we got all this stuff. And I basically said something to my wife about going to Miami because the Bored Ape Yatch Club NFT project I'm in his is like buying or building a clubhouse. And she's like, I don't even know what that means. I was like, Yeah, I don't either. But I'm kind of excited about it. I'd like to check it out. Yeah, the Patriots, our local football team, NFL football team is playing in Miami in January for the last game of the season. So I think maybe I've actually never seen an NFL game live, which is kind of crazy. But I think maybe we'll go down for that. There. There is no date on the roadmap for when the clubhouse will be ready. But yeah, that seems like far enough away that it's it's quite possible. It'll be ready, then.

Roy: 21:30

Yeah, that sounds fun and exciting. Um, what else has been happening with the board at your club this week?

Jamie: 21:38

I think that's pretty much the big thing. I mean, they're the Christie's Auction is still going on. But it's, you know, it's a 10 day auction. So it's just pretty slow. Yeah, like the the blue beams eight that we talked about is the highest selling one it looks like. And I think maybe it was up to like, 400,000 US Dollars equivalent or something. But I can't actually remember for sure. You can look it up pretty quickly. Last I checked 600. Yeah. But yeah, that the roadmap 2.0 is going to be the biggest news, wherever. And it involves all these different stuff. So that's that was the big thing there. Oh, actually, did you hear about Jenkins valet? That's kind of big.

Roy: 22:15

Yeah, that is big news. I briefly heard about it, you probably know more, they made some big collab with a marketing agency or something.

Jamie: 22:23

So CIA, which is like one of the big talent agencies in the US for, you know, they represent actors and writers and stuff like that. Basically took on Jenkins, the valet, which is an ape, as a client is basically my understanding of how it worked. So they're going to represent this NFT, in terms of like, just negotiating with publishers and hooking them up with different people and stuff like that. And so they have a book in the works is their first thing, but then they definitely want to expand out of there. And Jenkins has a whole NFT project to go along with it. I think it's called the the Jenkins Valley writers room, maybe. So if people wanted to, they can check that out and learn more about it. But that was very cool. And I just love seeing people, you know, actually utilizing the IP rights that we have with these rather than just kind of holding on to it and you know, maybe trying to sell later to somebody else who will do it or just theoretically letting them go to waste. And the way his works is like if you get into that writers room, it basically gives you the option to license your ape to them to use in like the book or the future things that they're going to do. So it's sort of a good way for the people who are not as much builders to still maybe get something out of the IP rights of their right.

Roy: 23:50

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's sort of a lot of people. Maybe even in the first like three or four months after the age came out apes, we're talking up how they have full commercial rights. And people were like, you know, modifying their lives and selling some other NFT's of them. And it wasn't really growing to be much but this I mean, getting one a represented by CAA is just enormous. And it just goes to show what is possible, not likely to happen with most apes, but you have this possibility. And it's sort of the case of one a success is going to raise the success of the entire collective because it'll get exposure and people will

Jamie: 24:30

Yeah, and also like the other thing, too, is this character specifically is like, he's literally he's meant to be the valet at the Bourne AP art club. Like, that's the story he's telling. And so the way that it sort of works is he he's kind of a low status character, but then gets to interact with all these people in the yacht club, or all these apes in the Yacht Club. And so he kind of hears their stories and interacts with them and all this so Looks like it naturally can pose it pull in a lot of other people's apes for the storytelling purposes. So it's pretty, pretty cool. And like they're trying to, you know, everybody wants to build out sort of these storytelling universes sort of like Marvel or whatever does what do they have, you know, different interconnected things in different mediums or whatever. So, you know, they have big plans to do a lot with it.

Roy: 25:25

Yeah. And just talking about the price of it for a moment, they launched, I want to say, like six weeks, two months ago, and I think the mid price was like point or six, maybe. And they sold out pretty quickly. And sort of like secondary market just tanked. Almost immediately, you know, some of the rarer ones were going for a bit more. But yeah, people just, I think it was just infested with a lot of people for like, just looking for a flip in it for the quick buck and not really invested in the project or the vision or not really understanding where it could go. And then the floor price is probably hovering around point one or point two for a long, long time. And then just recently, it's probably up to point one or point one, one. And it just kind of goes to show that a lot of people are going to be trying to and making money just flipping and you know, buying and dumping. But the like there's tremendous opportunity in finding these projects where the, the price has plummeted from mint, or just from its peak, and the team is still there. And they're working on stuff and making progress and building something. And if it's something cool or interesting or new, then it full full well has the potential to like really take off again. And yeah, I mean, if I'm sure some people made a ton of money off of this buying the midpoint, or one or whatever. And I've already 10x and probably a lot more if this.

Jamie: 26:54

I'm looking at it right now. It's point two, four.

Roy: 26:57

It was point one earlier today, and I was like, it was like point O

Jamie: 27:01

eight ish when the announcement happened, as I recall. Yeah.

Roy: 27:05

This is ridiculous. I'm into the bunch. And I sold most of them pretty quickly after that, because I was in that category. And I didn't keep up with a discord. I still thankfully have to. So

Jamie: 27:16

yeah, now you have the valet tickets because there's basically four levels. There's the valet ticket. There's the key. There's one between the key and the yacht, I guess it's like the maybe the valet stand, I think is what it's called. And then there's the yacht.

Roy: 27:31

Yeah, so I have one is the ticket. And then one is the second third to one. I think the key?

Jamie: 27:39

Yeah, the key is the second tier. Yeah. second from the bottom, I should say. Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's very cool. I didn't get into the project initially. But then when I saw that announcement, I was like, That's very cool. And potentially very big. And so I bought like, maybe five of them at the time. Nice. At about point oh, eight or something like that. Yeah.

Roy: 28:04

Yeah, so that was cool. It's been a good

Jamie: 28:06

week, and then I checked the price like the next day. And it was like still the same point. Oh, 8.09. And now I'm just very pleasantly surprised. Check it right. The second. You see it all the way up? 2.24? Yeah.

Roy: 28:19

Yeah, I mean, I'd probably checked it like six hours ago. It was point one. So.

Jamie: 28:24

Yeah, it feels like things are getting a bit bullish again, huh.

Roy: 28:27

I think so. Like a lot of a lot of projects taken off more and more and more. And, yeah, I mean, the crypto market in general is sort of like, see sawing back and forth, you know, up down five to 10%. Every other day, but yeah, NFT's. Yeah, the pumping again. They are. The Bored Ape price has basically been stagnant for a time now.

Jamie: 28:50

The mutants have been have been moving up somewhat nicely since the roadmap reveal, I

Roy: 28:55

think. I think so. Yeah. Cuz a lot of people love the roadmap, and just the price of a Bored Ape is out.

Jamie: 29:03

I'm also really liking the mute in art a lot more as time goes on. Yeah, it's definitely growing on me.

Roy: 29:09

I've I've always liked the art. But I think a point you made a comment on the podcast or not was that it's not necessarily the most pleasant to look at. Yes, flattering or whatever. People might not necessarily want it as their avatar. But it's cool to me.

Jamie: 29:24

Yeah, I'm liking it a lot more actually. All right, is that

Roy: 29:28

the Bored Ape Yatch Club section

Jamie: 29:29

that's the end of Bored Ape Yatch Club segment. Alright. Let's talk about artblocks. ArtBlocks. Very nice.

Roy: 29:45

Um, yeah, I love talking about blocks. You had a the biggest sale of your life I want to say, yeah, maybe the biggest I've ever sold.

Jamie: 29:55

Um, yeah, what the hell else? Yes, I've sold some comics. books for a decent amount of money, but definitely not this much. How much? Yeah, so

Roy: 30:04

what? How much was the sale,

Jamie: 30:07

I sold my last fragments of the infinite field, I had two of them initially, I sold one, I guess, like about a week ago for 18 ether. And then I sold my other one yesterday for 32 ether when the floor was about 14 at the time. So that was kind of cool. I woke up, and I had a 21 ether bid on it. Again, when the floor was about 14, I did not have a plan on selling this thing at all. But then this person bidding 50% above the floor on it got me just sort of thinking about it a little bit. So I looked at their wallet, it was a brand new wallet that they had just funded from Coinbase. They funded it with 84 ether, and they bid on five of them, and they bid 21 on all of them, except for one that they bid 30 on. So I said okay, maybe I can counter for 30 and see if they want to spend 30 on mine. And just so people know specifically the one I'm talking about, it was a summer piece, which is the rarest of the seasons, is that accurate? It's the

Roy: 31:09

rarest is 186 of them.

Jamie: 31:12

Wow, that's good memory. I kind of thought it was 190. But I'll take your word for it. Summer, which is the rarest of the seasons. But beyond that it wasn't a particularly rare one. It was a very nice aesthetic one, I liked it quite a bit more than the one that I had sold easier. But that's that's a lot of money. And theoretically, without a minimum amount of money, I could just get right back in with one near the floor. And you know, this is a project where if you show me eight fragments of an infinite field, probably six of them, I would be very happy to just own as a piece of art. Like I really, I think there's very few where the composition does not work for me. I really love them a lot. So I was sort of happy to theoretically get a nice chunk of ether and then replace mine if I could. So yeah, I countered with 30. And they didn't respond to the counter for a while. So I just listed it to everybody at 32. And then a few hours later, it was gone.

Roy: 32:18

And so you had said, I mean somewhere during the course of the day, we were talking and you're like yeah, if it sells I'm just gonna buy two floor ones. And yeah, yeah. And then after it's sold, I was like, so you gotta buy two and you're like, Well, I was gonna buy one. You haven't bought one yet? Every

Jamie: 32:34

Yes. Oh, no, wait, have you got one today. So I didn't just immediately go into it because it didn't seem like that was necessarily the smartest thing to do. Even though it seemed like you know, potentially smart there's, there's a lot of things you can do with 32 Aetherium you don't have to just plow it right back into that. But I did believe in the project enough that I I pretty strongly wanted to get back at least one. But I also wanted to keep my options open. So I I took the 32 ether excuse me, and I wrapped up enough so I would have 20 ether wrapped and just kind of went on a big bidding spree of stuff I loved which included a lot of fragments of the infinite field. I bid basically 12 ether on a bunch that I liked and a little bit less on like some winter ones because the market doesn't like winter as much and they're more common and I went as high as 17.5 on one summer one that I really thought was stunning. And then that one ended up selling for like 30 today but yeah, I ended up landing a very nice looking spring one that I think arguably maybe I'd like more than the one I sold a statically so that's that's great basically to just kind of pocket 20 ether and get another piece from the project that's all good. But and now I have a bunch of bids outstanding on other stuff as well that that maybe I'll hit with the rest of the Raptor theorem. But I also bid on some bigger stuff that I kind of thought was permanently out of my bankroll. I went after some Ark

Unknown: 34:14

archetypes archetypes archetype, archetype, archetype.

Jamie: 34:20

archetype. Yeah. I bet on some archetypes, which, you know, we've talked about these, probably every other every other episode on this podcast and it definitely seemed like something that had gotten away from me. But then all of a sudden I made a 32 F sale and it seemed like okay, I could I can bid enough on these that maybe someone will sell but I think I ended up bidding 18 Aetherium on a bunch while before was like 30. So it was it was pretty hopeful. But it was it was fun just to be theoretically in the runnings and then I bid on some sub scapes which was even more unrealistic and and then a lot more More affordable stuff. Like some 720 minutes, I think some stipple sunsets, some Bored Ape kennel clubs. It's a boy, it's fun to have a lot of fresh new rapt ether, and just go shopping.

Roy: 35:12

Yeah. Well, yeah. See I, I'm not as patient. I don't rap my ether in good bidding. It is so difficult for me to keep any amount of ether in my wallet and not buy like,

Jamie: 35:28

Yeah, well, and we've talked about this a bit, we have a different tax situation, right. So it's easier for you to plow your money back in and not have to worry about it.

Roy: 35:36

Yeah, yours is less good. Basically,

Jamie: 35:40

significantly less good. Yeah. But we don't need to talk about

Unknown: 35:45

tearing people out.

Jamie: 35:49

Yeah, so that was that was huge for me. And I'm happy to be back in I had a tweet going sanely viral talking about it, which was kind of weird, because my tweets, I don't have that many followers. And my tweets are not usually very popular. But this one went crazy. I basically just said that I had had my biggest NFT sale ever. And I was listening to breakup songs that I used to listen to, while I was in high school, and thinking about how this NFJ and I are never going to see each other again. And people really, really related to that feeling. It's funny. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was again, it was like when I sold the first one, I was thinking this is crazy. But it also feels like this is like financially in the long run a big mistake because I believe so much in this specific project from our blocks. And then I was having that feeling again, but then kind of just interacting with the people on Twitter and talking about breakup songs and seeing that funny Woody Harrelson GIF, where he's wiping away tears. Bill's made me feel better about it, you know, and then a handful of hours later, I guess it was actually like, almost exactly 24 hours later, I ended up landing the other one. So I'm back in the fragments of an infinite field business, I really want to get a full set. But boy, that's it's gonna be tough.

Roy: 37:11

I want that too. But, I mean, I have two very rare summer ones. So

Jamie: 37:18

I mean, if you sold your store one, you could you could buy multiple sets? Probably yes.

Roy: 37:23

The goal is or the I guess the dream is to one day sell one of those two, and then buy like, I have. I have two summers, Rachel has a spring I believe. So I would sell one of my summers and buy an autumn and winter and together we'd have a full set.

Jamie: 37:40

I think autumn is my least favorite aesthetically, but the market seems to think winners their least favorite. Yeah. There's not as much contrast and colors in the winter one, which I think maybe is what people don't like about it. But to me, there's enough and like the the palettes in general to it I quite like and I also just grew up in a very wintery, cold snowy place. So that aesthetic is very real and pleasant to me. Yeah. Oh, what just again, though, what a joke. What stunning artwork. Yeah. Did you pay attention in the group chats that I while I was shopping for them, and then sent the the Van Gogh's plus the summer one? Yeah. They're, they're so amazing.

Roy: 38:30

They really, and it was a bunch of lines of code that generated that that's

Jamie: 38:35

Yeah. Which, which kinda can transition us into talking about the sculptors? Oh, man. The drop coming out, I guess on Monday. Yeah, Monday,

Roy: 38:45

but PETA plasma says name? Yeah. And

Jamie: 38:50

Peter tweeted out the entirety of the code for it. And it's so little code, excuse me, that it's really stunning, especially when you look at the output and like, also just kind of comparing it to the hilarious tiny things I used to do programming and how many lines of code it was. And he's making like a generative art project of art that looks that detailed, in that few lines of code admit it made me feel bad as like an artist and as a coach.

Roy: 39:18

It is really mind blowing, like I'm looking at I'm reading the the page on blocks now. And the entire amount of code is 6370 bytes. So that's 6.7 6.3 kilobits kilobytes, which is nothing insane. Yeah, nothing and these, like, the quality is, again, like nothing we've seen on blocks before. It's unique. Yeah,

Jamie: 39:43

the quality is the wrong way. Sorry.

Roy: 39:45

The project is nothing interesting. It blocks the quality is it's just high quality. Like it looks like a 500 megabyte rendered picture almost

Jamie: 39:55

right there. They're pretty stunning. Yeah, and we'll definitely link these in the show notes.

Roy: 40:00

Yeah, the job will have had happened after. By the time this is out this podcast is out. And yeah, I mean, I think we're both going to try and buy but it could get expensive.

Jamie: 40:15

Yeah, I'm, I think it looks great. And I'm going to try to get one. But I'm not gonna, you know, put on the full gas mask and blast at the very first level the Dutch auction or anything crazy like that. But I'm definitely going to be at my computer trying to MIT for sure.

Roy: 40:31

So the Dutch auction it starts at 15/8. And then, yeah, man, I don't think and like a couple people might pay that as always happens, but I don't think it's going to sell out close to 15. But people really friggin love this drop. I wouldn't be surprised if it sells out at eight. But I'm hoping for within the four to six range, anything below that would be fantastic.

Jamie: 40:57

So one thing our group chat was talking about a little bit is people in the community selling stuff to get liquidity for a big exciting drop like this, is that something that you think about strategically and try to take advantage of by by finding deals, when you know there's something big like this coming up that that people are trying to get money for because it's not really something I've ever done, but I do sort of occasionally accidentally notice it when I'm sort of on that end of the stick and I'm kind of looking for you know, whatever to sell one of my art blocks pieces to get liquidity for a new one and I'll head over to the discord and see oh wow, a lot of people seem to have the same idea.

Roy: 41:42

I I've never take like tried to take advantage of it or to seize the opportunity by making a bunch of bids basically around the time of new drops. But I've certainly been on the other side where I like I'm struggling for liquidity like

Jamie: 41:58

I know I've definitely seen you do that I'm always using NFT fi and stuff Yeah, today

Roy: 42:03

like I sold some adventure gold the ERC 20 token that was dropped from the loot NFT's just like three times I sold a batch of two and a half 1000 Because I was like I need more eth to buy these entities anymore to buy these entities. And then it's it's just I really need to sit down and start selling a bunch of stuff. And I want to do now. So that come Monday, I'm not in a crunch situation struggling frantically trying to find the AEF and that's when people accept these lowball bids. Yeah, so I it's definitely a thing. It's real everyone in the space. Maybe he said the point or 1% is in these liquidity crunches all the time. Like it's just almost inevitable if you if you love NFT's as much as most of us do, you're going to be buying NFT's and you're not going to want to sell them and then you're going to want to buy more NFT's and it's you're going to have to sell something and yeah, it it is a thing and it's it's probably something that warrants more thought. And I guess some people are thinking about it and putting these bedsit bids out before big drops. And I think the most I've ever seen this effect in play was when the mutants were dropped by the body. Yeah, they had a a stealth drop of a Dutch auction for 10,000 mutants at starting at 3/8. And I mean, it's not it was dropping every second, but it has sold out basically by the time it hit like 2.7 or something. And you could just see, like I was online at the time. It was like every single NFT project had their floors drop. People were just massively liquidating, accepting bids to rush and buy these mutants. It was insane. It I've never seen anything like it. I'm sure it's happened before. Maybe with me bits it happened but I wasn't around. Well, as I wasn't like

Jamie: 44:05

there was just so there was so little out there at me bits like yeah, what could people even be liquidating?

Roy: 44:11

It was mostly like punks buying the bits as well. And like the super wealthy buying tons of them was less of people who had been in the space for two months trying to liquidate their other assets. Because not many people had been in the space for two months by then. But yes, it's certainly a thing if there's an effect for the day, there should be a name for the effect.

Jamie: 44:33

Yeah, I feel like I've never really fallen prey to it all that much. Like I'm I kind of feel like my overall selling strategy of NFTS is is really kind of specifically about that NFT and that NFT project and the market of it and I just kind of try to trim positions when it seems right to and then if I happen to have eth when it's time For a new project that I'm interested in, I'll mentor and if I don't I go, Well, I guess it just wasn't meant to be, you know, like, I'll maybe put a very, very half hearted glanced and try to go, is there something I'm missing that I could sell, but, you know, I generally bid so low and then list stuff so high that I just don't make purchases, or get liquidity from sales as quick as other people, because I'm just trying to, I'm trying to play that stuff off a little bit slower.

Roy: 45:31

Yeah. I'm, I'm the opposite. So yeah, if I list something for sale, it's almost always just below floor price. And it's just to, because I want to sell it quickly. The occasional exceptions are the super rare fragments of an infinite field I have. Which, I mean, they're still at the full price for the respective trades for that trade. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I guess, if I see, and I will basically never accept a bid on anything. If I'm looking for liquidity. I just, it's just

Jamie: 46:08

against like a bot bed. You mean, because there are, there's legitimate bids. Very, very

Roy: 46:13

rarely do I accept a bid. I'm another legitimate bids. But it's basically in the case when someone bids above floor price for something that I think is a floor page, or just above market value? And I'm like, Hmm, okay, I'll accept that. But there's a lot of like, do they know something? I don't know.

Jamie: 46:32

Right. And it's also like, if I, if we consider me a non bought bidder, which I am, and call my bids legitimate, even though they're often quite low. It's like, if I'm bidding point six, there's a pretty decent chance that I'll pay point seven, two or whatever. Yeah. So even if you're okay, with the price that that somebody has bid, it's okay to go. Well, let me add 15% On top of that, and list it for that, and then maybe they'll meet me there.

Roy: 47:00

Yeah, this whole new counter offer function of opensea is pretty neat for facilitating that kind of thing.

Jamie: 47:07

For sure, yeah. Oh, that guy didn't accept my counteroffer though.

Roy: 47:12

Yeah, you counted 30? Yes, yeah.

Jamie: 47:15

And then ended up selling for 32. to somebody else.

Roy: 47:17

Yeah. Well, that's nice. Yeah. Um,

Jamie: 47:21

I wonder if I could have got like, 40 or something, though.

Unknown: 47:25

Oh, well, Oh, well.

Jamie: 47:29

You want to talk about gravity? 16. That was a drop. It just happened that you seem to be quite a big fan of

Roy: 47:33

Yes. I frickin love that drop. So that was a fatty download, right? Yeah, it was a factory drop. Two days ago, I think by Jimmy Hedberg, and he had a previous factory drop called gravity. 12 which

Jamie: 47:48

looks at another one gravity 13 Right.

Roy: 47:51

He had gravity 12 In an open seat. He I think it's been a whole series like gravity one to 16. I've seen that released like 13. And I think 1415 off our blog. So

Jamie: 48:04

yeah, cuz I definitely saw like on his social media, yeah, after gravity 12 Some other ones that it was called gravity, 13, or whatever.

Roy: 48:10

Um, I think some people take like a bit of an issue with that him using sort of the same code and releasing it elsewhere. I mean, it is what it is. It's the same code, though, right? No, it's definitely different code. And I believe, at least in one of the cases, I didn't look too much into all the different gravities. But one of them like the addition size was nine, like there are nine, say gravity 13. So whichever one and it's just not really comparing apples and apples with 1000. Drop up looks mental, whatever. Yeah, but yeah, they look at it's also

Jamie: 48:42

like the vert, the difference between like, what Tyler Hobbs is now calling this long form generative art versus traditional. So like, when he does that drop of nine, theoretically, he's minting or not minting, I should say, but generating a bunch with the algorithm, and kind of hand selecting some nice ones. And this is what generative artists used to do, they would make an algorithm and I shouldn't say what they used to do what a lot of them used to do, and some still do. Because I don't want to act like everybody's not doing it now. Especially when I'm specifically talking about this. I don't know. I'm really getting sidetracked here. But anyway, so you would make your your your generative art algorithm, and then you generate, say, 1000 pieces with it, and then just go one by one, through the outputs by yourself. And then, you know, however many prints or whatever you wanted to make, maybe say 10, you pick out your 10 favorites, and then those would be the arts and everything else would basically be discarded. And so if he's doing stuff off of art blocks, but that format, that's like a very different thing, and you want to sort of tune your algorithm to have different parameters to get the best results for that versus an art blocks drop where every single hour is an actual final work?

Roy: 50:02

Yeah, I mean, it is so incredibly difficult. I mean, I imagine I don't actually know I'm not a coder, but to create an algorithm that makes 1024 outputs, and have them all look good. And if they're a diverse and like, look different enough from one another, it's even more impressive. And I think that he accomplished that with this drop where I don't think I've seen a single one that I dislike, they all look stunning. And I'll keep looking through pages. And yes, a lot of them they share some similarities, but there's tons of diversity and uniqueness and different types of outputs that yeah, it's, it's amazing, but you will occasionally come across some that look, you know, somewhat similar to one another.

Jamie: 50:41

Yeah, I mean, what it's, it's a single project. So there supposed to be some level of similarity between them. So you can recognize, oh, this is another piece from that same project,

Roy: 50:51

man, I'm looking at them now. I love them so much.

Jamie: 50:54

That one that I saw somebody having displayed on their TV looks really good.

Roy: 50:59

Yeah. They're

Jamie: 51:02

nine, I remember bidding on some gravity twelves in the secondary market a while ago, never quite landing in a, I'll probably be bidding on more, some of these gravity sixteens in the coming days. Yeah, I did not maintain

Roy: 51:14

the, the flow price. I mean, they minted out at point two, five, which was the lowest level of the Dutch auction. And the full price pretty quickly spiked up to I think, point four or something. But yeah, I mean, with these factory drops with 1000 minutes, and with more of them happening, I think it's going to be more difficult for them to sustain very high floors, but there are going to be exceptions or droids, you know, a 900 something 906 minute drop, and it has a very high floor and I could see gravity 16 being very high, but I could also see it, you know, dropping a bit in the short term. Yeah, I'm looking at gravity 12 now and that's also really good. It's it's similar, obviously, same sort of concept, but

Jamie: 52:03

there's some like new forums in this gravity six. Yeah, I don't remember being like the the ones that kind of look a little bit like the octo gardens where it's like, a bit spirally and stuff like that. I don't really remember anything looking like that and gravity 12. Whereas in this gravity 16 There's some like that.

Roy: 52:19

Yeah, like gravity 12 I think had less diversity in the 512 minutes and gravity 16 Hasn't 1024. Yeah, it just added these new elements that they're just really cool. And almost alien like, yeah, really nice.

Jamie: 52:38

Yeah, they do look nice. We should also mention this, the sculptor curated drop that's coming up that we talked about, that's going to be the end of season four of their, their curated projects, and there'll be a somewhat of a break longer break than there normally is between projects before they start up season five.

Roy: 52:59

Yeah, so normally, they have one drop a week, this one was a little longer because they needed some more time with the algorithm or something. But um, yeah, so they said they'll take a break, but then they also said that the next year that would be before Marfa, and Marfa is sort of this Openhouse gallery thing happening in Marfa, Texas. And I think that's like 10th of October or something. So it's going to be maybe longer than a week but not by luck. Yeah, yeah. If they if they stick to that timeline. Season Four is a whole series for I think that gold is it's really, really nice. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of excellent drops in there.

Jamie: 53:44

Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull it up right now so I can just talk a bit generally about it with you. So let's see what's it started with Century started with Glitz crystal monster critical monsters?

Roy: 53:55

Yeah.

Jamie: 53:56

Yeah. So to me, my favorites have been pigments and fragments for sure. And then I also like scribbled boundaries a bit and find phases. Interesting. Trost it's I have barely got to look at because we were on that vacation. And I was I was so out of it. Like physically not able to take part when that meant happened that I just kind of never paid attention to it. And geometry runners was just so expensive and such a gas water that I kind of stayed away. But but that one seems seems pretty fun to me and and quite differentiated.

Roy: 54:36

Yeah. Different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, great

Jamie: 54:42

season.

Roy: 54:43

Great season. I mean, they've all been good. But yeah, um, it seems noteworthy that there are less almost significantly so less drops in season four, or series four, then two and three.

Jamie: 54:58

So The number of projects yeah,

Roy: 55:01

there's been 12345679 and sees a series Full 12 In three, and maybe about the same in two. So if people keep saying that up looks is diluting the system, they keep dropping more and more, if you just look strictly at up looks curated, they're actually dropping less than they have the previous six months. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, that's just an interesting thing to note. I think fragments, probably my favorite drop in the series. It's just stunning.

Jamie: 55:37

Yeah, it seemed hard that I would, there would be one that I would like more than pigments. Oh, yeah,

Unknown: 55:43

you love pigments,

Jamie: 55:44

I still do. But I was really crazy about them for a while. But now, I'm so loving fragments, you know, there's sort of an interesting thing where there's such a difference between how accessible some of the art is, like, for instance, stuff like fragments of an infinite field, or fidenza. As it's just a still image, it's very easy, relatively speaking, to appreciate the art for what it is without having to spend a lot of time whereas, you know, so like, if you wanted to go shopping for either those aren't open see, you can go through and look at 25 of them in a way that does a fair amount of respect to the piece of art in terms of you assessing it before you start bidding or buying or moving on or whatever. Whereas if you wanted to do the same thing with say, pigments or phases, it would take you a really, really long time to get through that. And so in terms of the market, or collectors being able to really assess how much they like a project in general and more specifically, which pieces in that they gravitate to. It's just some of these projects take so much longer that it's it's it's very apples and oranges to me.

Roy: 57:11

Yeah, for sure. I think it would be nice if the open sea or the marketplace out of pigments do that buying and selling had a better way to view them. I think that don de collects a prolific odd blocks collector is working on a marketplace specifically for blocks which sounds interesting and is going to have lower fees than open see and if it works well and couldn't get enough of the art blocks community buying and selling on there then it could just be like sort of a win win win situation. Yes, I'm gonna keep an eye on Yeah, so that's is that it for our blocks. Was there anything else?

Jamie: 57:59

Yeah, I'm busy staring at apartments right now.

Roy: 58:02

Yeah. Let me just talk quickly about phase that was another curated drop from this series by Lauren Bednar. It something I heard around the time it had dropped when people were really appreciating and loving it is how different it is from every other drop on Roblox as a lot of things are but specifically how different it is from every other animated drop, even where with most other animated drops, if you looked at it for four seconds, you get a pretty good understanding of the whole piece. I mean, I know pigments gets better the more you look at it, and it changes quite a bit but for most projects, maybe all projects you can get a good idea whereas with phase you really need to watch the entirety of it to really understand and get it and grasp it like and appreciate it more than anything because it sort of it goes through these phases where you know, the speed ramps up and it like loops and it accelerates and yeah, it just I would

Jamie: 59:02

say yeah, even more than maybe the idea of watching for four seconds versus the whole thing is like the thumbnail versus the animation because if you look at a phases thumbnail and a pigments thumbnail the pigments thumbnail does look a bit like what you're going to get in the pigments that's animated and same with like you know inspiral for instance it looks like it looks and the animation brings something to it and I would argue you know in both of those brings a lot to it but you have a sense of what you're looking at a phases thumbnail almost just looks like nothing a blur compared to what the actual animated pieces doing.

Roy: 59:45

Yeah. 100% agree.

Unknown: 59:49

All right. Ah, blocks.

Jamie: 59:54

We got to work on that.

Roy: 59:57

That's been the block segment.

Jamie: 1:00:02

Twitter q&a, we

Unknown: 1:00:04

had a q&a.

Jamie: 1:00:05

All right, our first question comes from farmer Lama. He says, I know you have a limit in how much you can talk art blocks, but and I'm just gonna stop them right there we do not. We we there is no limit to how much we could theoretically talk about our box. Or let me continue says, What do you guys feel are underrated in art blocks, it'd be cool for you each to pick one each in the three collections. So I guess he's saying one curated, one playground and one factory that we each think are under rated.

Roy: 1:00:37

Yeah, it's funny that this is the very first question we lead into after a segment on our books. But I'll go first. I had a little thing about this before, I think for curated, it's I mean, there's so many that I love but underrated I would probably put scribbled boundaries forward. I think maybe a lot of people don't love that one particularly. And to me from the moment I saw sort of the test net minutes, it just really appealed to me. And I think that maybe the market hasn't quite caught up, the full price is relatively low still. I don't know what it is right now to two and a half or something. So yeah, that's my curated pick for playground, I'd go with pathfinders. I think it's another one of those ones, which a lot of people don't necessarily realize that it's sort of, there's an interactive animated element where if you click on anywhere on the Pathfinder image, it sort of like starts this ripple effect of animation and these really cool effects that significantly change what it looks like. And it's just always been one of my favorites. And it's sort of generally tended to be towards the lower end of a project in terms of flow price, but we have to maybe underrated and then factory, Rachel is going to kill me for not pick picking brush pops. I think celestial celestial cyclones, which is another one of those projects, which the moment I heard about, I was in love with it as a project as an idea

Jamie: 1:02:15

market was really in love with them for a short period of time as well, if they

Roy: 1:02:19

had a couple of crazy spikes. So immediately after it dropped, I can't remember what it sold out for or whether it was a Dutch auction or not. I think it was back in the days before trial can still. But um, it's what it is, is effectively it's sort of like a a game. It's like those brick breaking breakout, I think, yeah. So they have a platform scrolling across the bottom and then a bowl is basically Yeah. And it's just this really cool version of that. I think it looks pretty neat, especially for a game and it works. You get heist, you get scores and points. And yeah, it's fun. And it's the first game on our blocks. Arguably the first generative art game on the Ethereum network, I think that there might be one other contender that people are debating about, which is more authentic or whatever. But um, yeah, and so they got a really quick pump immediately, and then market cooled off a bit. And then the artist behind it is the same artist who created the other factory drop. Dino Pals, which is 100 Supply Drop, and has created this sort of extremely exclusive hold a list. And the floor price at one point was like 158. Now it's like fifth to eighth, which is still ludicrous. Yep. Yeah. But same artists. So then people realize that, hey, they have another drop in factory, they started buying tons of them in the full price ran up again, and it's sort of cooled back down again. But um, yeah, I mean, those are my three picks. What are yours?

Jamie: 1:03:54

Okay, this is a interesting question, underrated. I'll say four curated projects. It's so tough to pick one. So I'm going to, I'm going to do one and then an asterix for some honorable mentions, because I just can't help myself. But for one curated, I'm going to go with 720 minutes, which I've talked about on this before. I think they're awesome. And the way that they each have a special minute that you kind of have to be watching. To fully appreciate them, makes them feel to me like such a cool personal NFT to own in a way that every single other NFT that I know of, is more interchangeable and less of a personal ownership thing than than the way the 720 minutes capture that special feeling to me. And then just a couple honorable mentions. I think unit grades for like an old one are Just they look great. And I don't think they get talked about enough. As far as being one of the elite earlier drops for playground, I would say, playground is actually a place where I have spent very little time shopping and collecting, but I think eccentrics look great. They're really unique. And are, are sort of evocative of various things that I think are very cool specifically, I've talked about this before, but a lot of them look like the guardians of Lapita in the in the movie Castle in the Sky, from Hayao Miyazaki, and I can't shake it, and they look so. So like that, that work, which I also love, that they're just really cool to me. And I think you know, how can you go wrong with EQ monopolist, but I think underrated would not be a good word to use for them. And I do also want to just say resonance by G one do, I don't have any of them I never have, but they're, they're awfully fun to appreciate and something that I would not mind at all, owning at some point. Any of these really cool 3d ones that you get to control the camera, I'm, I'm really appreciating so much more than I did when I first started looking at art blocks. So yeah, his work is really, really interesting. So I think those were worth looking at as well. And then for factory projects. Underrated I would say for me, Event Horizon sunsets, I think those look really great. There's like a very, to me pleasant sort of delicateness to their forms, and how like, sort of how airy and sin the form seem to be, it just looks really smooth and and great to me almost the way like apparition some of them have that. Kind of it almost looks like a sheet with wind going under it or something, you know. But with the event horizon sunsets, it's more of a a transparent thing. And I don't know some of them just look really cool and have like a pleasant sense of motion as well. And they have a super cheap floor price. People don't talk about them much. As well as having a pretty nice variety of colors in in individual pieces, as well as across different pieces. So that would probably be my pick for factory.

Roy: 1:07:47

Yeah, I like I like them a lot as well. Cool. uncoming Daddy says, How does fractional art work? Is it safe to buy a token of someone who's fractionalized in his bought a yacht club or some other blue chip? NFT.

Jamie: 1:08:05

Okay, so when he says fractional art, he's actually giving a specific web address is basically a company they're called fractional arm. And what they do as far as I understand it is basically allow an owner of an NFT to represent that NFT with a bunch of ERC 20 tokens, and then in so doing, basically allow people to buy a percentage of an NFT that they maybe couldn't afford the whole thing of or don't want to spend that much for.

Roy: 1:08:38

That's basically my understanding as well. I don't know the specifics and logistics of how it all works, because I know that there's some

Jamie: 1:08:48

something like buyouts or whatever, which I don't really understand. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I guess you've been what, when, when you fractionalize it, I think you get to pick a price where anybody can pay to get all the tokens for that much or something, and then take ownership of it. I that part I'm not clear about?

Roy: 1:09:05

Yeah, there's definitely some element because once you fractionalize That basically, you can't get the NFT back together because it's very difficult to get all of the fractions into one owner's hand but there's some buyout mechanism where people can pay X amount and eventually if all the holders agree to that price or something then yes, that person can take

Jamie: 1:09:26

I think, I think maybe the the holders are agreeing to that price ahead of time. Because that price is is stated so basically saying like you're you're sort of when you buy the ERC 20 saying I would like to capture the upside between the current market value of this piece which is theoretically lower than the the buyout price, and the buyout price but then once it gets to the buyout price, you can't capture any more to the upside because somebody will just pay for the whole piece is sort of my understand how that works. Yeah. And they're saying, is it safe to buy the token of someone who's fractionalized thing is born APR club, I would say, you know, if they're doing it through one of these actually audited smart contracts that you understand. Yes.

Roy: 1:10:17

Yeah, I'd say it's safe. But I'd say you should understand how it works better than we do. Because, yeah, understand what scenarios you're going to be able to realize profit and get your money out. And, you know, just how it all works, do some more research. But yeah, I do use these platforms successfully.

Jamie: 1:10:36

Yeah, and I think it's it, this is the kind of thing that we're just gonna see get built out more and more and utilized and improved more and more. Yeah. So it's, it's a thing that I'm going to keep my eye on for sure.

Roy: 1:10:49

Yeah, it's very, very cool.

Jamie: 1:10:52

XEmacs said, Does dollar cost averaging apply to NFT's that are down, ie artbox that are down from August peak.

Roy: 1:11:02

I mean, I think dollar cost averaging does apply to NFT's. But something being down or down from its peak sort of is, goes against what dollar for dollar cost averaging is the whole concept of dollar cost averaging is that you're investing or buying, you know, a certain amount into a space. So let's say you want to invest 10 eth into NFT's to dollar cost average, you could say, okay, every Monday, I'm going to buy one ether worth of NFT's. And it doesn't matter whether it's up or down, you sort of do it on a regular basis. And the the idea is that you capture, you know, when prices are up and when they're down. So in the long run, it averages out to this nice theoretically entry point, that if you believe in the long term vision will capture a lot of that upside and and mitigate the risk of invested alternate at one point, maybe pick the peak and it crashes down. Whereas if you do it, you know, every day or every week, then you get,

Jamie: 1:11:59

the idea sort of is that when it goes up, it's theoretically slightly a worse deal. And then so when you buy your same consistent amount, in terms of how much you're spending, you're spending less when it's not as good of a deal. And then if the price comes down, theoretically, it's a better deal. And so now, when you spend that same amount 1/8, for instance, you're you're getting more of it at the better price. But I think actually all of the like real long term studies, in the stock market, at least version of it say that dollar cost averaging is not actually, like, if you have the lump sum, it works out better in 95% of scenarios to just invest at all, rather than to dollar cost average. But you know, if you're, if you don't have savings, but you do have enough income that you can continue to invest a little bit, then yeah, you're gonna probably want to dollar cost average. But I do believe that if you are looking at something that is going to go up over time, as the stock market tends to do, and as you may believe that NFT's are going to do if you have the lump sum, it generally works out better to just invest it. Now obviously, if you happen to do that right before a big crash, it does not necessarily, but it also sort of does because, you know, if there's a big crash, a lot of times the the response to it is a very quick and aggressive runner up. And when you're dollar cost averaging, maybe you've only done, you know, three different weeks of putting in this tiny amount of money, and you're not actually capturing all that upside. So, you know, you missed a lot of downside, but you're also missing a lot of the upside.

Roy: 1:13:47

Yeah, I definitely remember reading or watching some YouTube video with someone was talking about basically dollar cost averaging versus taking a lump sum investing into Bitcoin. And like you said something like 90% of the time plus, it was better to just invest all of it rather than dollar cost averaging.

Jamie: 1:14:05

Yeah, I mean, it just if it's a good idea to invest money in this thing, it's going to be better to have all 10 eth invested in it from day one, rather than having one after a week two after two weeks, three after three weeks. But again, you know, if if your you know, savings to income ratio is such that you don't have a choice. Yeah, definitely go ahead and do

Roy: 1:14:27

that. Yep. And I think it's also going

Jamie: 1:14:31

ahead. I was gonna say it's like a, it's this kind of thing can very much be a psychological thing to where if you kind of have an understanding of yourself, and your sort of emotional stability with financial products or whatever. Having something very structured like this can help you from not making a gigantic mistake that you feel maybe you would make if you gave yourself too much leeway So I don't want to just tell people that it's, you know, mathematically bad, better to just invest all right away. Because that that doesn't capture the reality of people's individual temperaments and financial situations. Yeah. And

Roy: 1:15:14

I was basically gonna make the same point there's, you know, psychological elements to it as well. All right, crypto currency seven says, I'd love to hear how you'd price packs poets, because the project is so fundamentally different. No one knows the final number of poets and Rarity verse, aesthetics is also very interesting thoughts. Thanks. As always,

Jamie: 1:15:35

all right. I'm very excited. Thoughts on this.

Roy: 1:15:38

So we were talking about this. You know, before during the podcast, we had a list of questions. And we were like, do you know about the poet's? And both of us were like, not really.

Unknown: 1:15:46

So I'll try and give a little bit of understanding Oh, slightly more than me. It sounds like

Roy: 1:15:52

Yes. So pack is sort of like an OG, prolific NFT artist. He's been around for a long time. He's had successful projects before. And he released this project called Last Poets. And he sold

Jamie: 1:16:07

it, he raised a ludicrous amount of money selling these right?

Roy: 1:16:10

Yeah, I can't remember the initial sale price. I think it was point four. And he sold 65,000 and change of them. So that in and of itself is a ludicrous amount of money. The full price now is like over one eight, that is even more ludicrous in the amount of money that is. But effectively, there's a lot of like, there was maybe is still a lot of like, cryptic pneus to it. And he was sort of alluding to

Jamie: 1:16:40

a little bread crumbs of information on on Twitter, right?

Roy: 1:16:43

Yeah. And sort of like he had open access to his discord for one minute. And then if you get in then you know, the within is the scope of this, like puzzles and cryptic anyway, I don't really know the details is just that element going on. And this sort of this game theory economic situation now where you can exchange or burn one of these last poet NFT's in exchange. I mean, I think they're called pages and you're getting strange one of the pages for a lost poet. And I basically know nothing more beyond that. So have some

Jamie: 1:17:13

like ERC 20 token called ash Yeah, that plays into it somehow.

Roy: 1:17:17

I really don't know. I own two of them. I bought them at point five or something because I missed the job. And because everyone's talking about I don't and I would

Jamie: 1:17:27

be interesting to see you do like, like you did that spreadsheet on your punks comic? Yeah. Right up in your sub stack to do something like that to try to crunch the numbers on on this project? Yeah, I've actually seen a couple of like, I saw something that as well, yes,

Roy: 1:17:42

thrown around. I didn't really look into it. Because I didn't I didn't want to get that deep into it at the time. But I think it's cool. It's interesting. The market clearly also agrees that it's cool and interesting. And it's sort of maybe not quite pushing the boundary, but just showing you again, I would say

Jamie: 1:18:03

it's pushing it a bit. Yeah. Any anything was that level of complexity and choice. And sort of, you know, interesting game theory where other people's decisions of what to do with it affects yours. And yeah, you know, not just, you know, what price they're gonna list it at or whatever, like, actually uses of it and turning it into different NFT's or ERC. 20s and all that is at that's all just interesting to me.

Roy: 1:18:30

Yeah. It's very similar to the whole punks comics ecosystem. Which, yeah, it gets, it began is what now appears to be sort of like a very simple game theory element where you're going to burn your comic first.

Jamie: 1:18:44

It was just birthday. And now it's now there's so much more 8 billion

Roy: 1:18:48

layers and counting. And it sounds like The Last Poets just sort of started off being quite complicated and interesting and in depth. And there's a lot of thought and strategy that goes into it, which is very cool.

Jamie: 1:19:03

Yeah, sorry that we do not know more. But it is something that we should probably learn more about. Yeah,

Roy: 1:19:08

I mean, there's too many so many things. It's crazy. There are all right,

Jamie: 1:19:14

next up is preusse. De who says, would love to hear how slash when you decide to sell good items for liquidity better to hold or flip at a certain point. Thanks as always for your guidance, silliness, inquisitiveness, and all over genuine Goodness,

Roy: 1:19:30

no, shucks. Thanks, you pristine. Yes, prosody.

Jamie: 1:19:35

I believe it's about Marcel Proust.

Roy: 1:19:37

Yeah, I was just being silly. I would say it's pristine as well. I was

Jamie: 1:19:43

being inquisitive and genuine.

Roy: 1:19:47

Let's Let's offer some guidance and genuine goodness.

Jamie: 1:19:52

I guess I touched on this a little bit talking about my fragments. So I've Yeah, vaguely talked about a little of my thoughts on this already. This episode one you tackle it a little bit.

Roy: 1:20:02

Sure. So I'm sort of in a different situation now than where I was three months ago, but not that significantly different. So what I do now is sort of, I go through these phases where I'm buying just bunches of random things that I think are cool, interesting, profitable, good projects. And I just sort of start and keep accumulating NFT's. And then they get to a point where I've run out of eth. I've run out of ERC 20 tokens to selfie, I have a borrowed some eth. And it's just like, Alright, I have all these NFT's. Now, I'm going to spend the next four days going through everything and selling and

Jamie: 1:20:39

you go all gas, and then until you run out, and then it's all breaks. Yeah. Whereas I do like more gradual accelerations and decelerations. Yeah,

Roy: 1:20:50

I will. Along that, like, I'll talk to what I was doing a few months ago, where I was selling much more frequently, because I need to liquidity much more often. And it was basically, I would try and mint. As we've said before, ideally you want them in multiples, used to be two now. Now we're saying you want them in at least three, excuse me of a project if I could afford it. And I thought it was a good project, I would make more than three, like, I don't know, whatever X amount. And then if it went up in price, I would start selling off as the price went up to basically cover my initial investment, maybe get a little bit of profit. But basically, I wanted to free roll the project. So I'd say by six, if I could sell three or four, recruit my initial investment and still have two, that was fantastic. And then I would sort of hold and move on to the next project. And then you know, go back in a few weeks, if it's done really well, maybe those two have become extremely valuable. And I would sell one and keep one for the very long run. And that was sort of my strategy for a long time. And it sort of allowed me to accumulate this ludicrous portfolio of entities now I have wait, I have too many. But it I definitely lost money and profit. Like there was me well, maybe not definitely. But certain projects I sold went on to moon and like I had at world of women and I sold like 60 of them or 50 of them. I had 10

Jamie: 1:22:13

pudgy penguins that I sold. Just nothing.

Roy: 1:22:18

Yeah. So did I and then I bought a stipple sunsets Oh,

Unknown: 1:22:24

oh, don't tell that story. Wow. All right. Um, so

Jamie: 1:22:32

yeah, crazy.

Roy: 1:22:33

I it's hard to know like your, I guess if you need liquidity sell, find things to sell, list them for sale, ideally sell them before you need the liquidity. So you're not in this sort of crunch where you're panic selling or fire selling?

Jamie: 1:22:50

Yeah, one thing that somebody on Twitter was saying is that I can't remember exactly what the phrase was time sensitive is, is what I'm going to replace it with. But it's, it's something else instead of sensitive, but basically, NFT's are not good. If if you are that, basically. So what they're basically saying is if you are in a rush to buy or sell, it's going to it's going to work out in general a lot worse for you in NFTs, because the the non fungible nature of them just means the liquidity is not really there for that. And so you're going to be sort of taking the worst end of the trade if you're really feeling in a rush to buy or sell something. Whereas if you have a slower time horizon, you can get things on the buying or selling end at more favorable prices.

Roy: 1:23:43

Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that. I will, I'll add that. If I see a project, just going absolutely bonkers in price, like 20x in a short amount of time or more, and I hold some of it, I will seriously consider selling it, just because all of it or some of it, some of it, usually not all of it. But to give an example, last couple I had maybe like 60, lazy lions, I mentioned them at point o five, and I sold most of them between point one and point three, I guess, just because again, at the time I needed liquidity. I wanted to cover costs, and I was trying to downsize my portfolio. But like last week or two, they've really gone crazy in price and I think the floor is around three eth now, and it went up so quickly. And I mean, I had four I think well five left at four, I think and then it basically got to the point where I was like I I can very easily see them coming crashing down to like 1/8 Again, I find it a little bit difficult to see them going up to like 20 from here. So I would rather take some profits and if they keep going up, I'm okay with that. If they come down, maybe I'll buy back in Depending on other factors, but if the if something runs up in price a lot, that's sort of when I'm looking to take profit

Jamie: 1:25:08

to deal with, like, your personal conviction in a project, you know, yeah. Like you've, for instance, held on to a fidenza, from a tiny price to an enormous price. Whereas, you know, with other projects that you maybe didn't love as much, you, you would have found a place to sell that 10 different times in that same amount of run up. Now, again, fidenza was a thing you had multiple of and you sold some on the run up? And then and now this last one, you you really let it go all the way. Yeah. But, you know, you have to look at how much you believe in the project, versus how much you're just going, I think maybe the price will continue to go up and, and really assess your true feelings and belief in it. I want to answer this question. Just more generally, though, this, this reminds me a lot of when we would, you know, be giving advice in like poker and people want, they want sort of a specific example, or rather a specific answer. And I think rather than telling people sort of what to do, it's better to point them at what factors they need to be considering, and give them sort of the tools to, to come up with the answer with those factors. So I would say, um, you know, for this kind of a question, and let me just reiterate it, how do you decide when to sell good items for liquidity better to hold their flip? At a certain point? You know, you need to look at how much money do you have in NFT's? How much money? Do you have available? On a, say, week to week basis to add to NFTs? Or how much do you need to take out from what you have in NFTs, to pay for bills? And what are your tax implications on selling versus holding? And what are you planning on doing with the proceeds from the sale? If you do sell, you know, there's just all these factors that you need to take into account. And, you know, NFT projects are so varied in what their plans are, and what their fundamental structure is, that it's it's hard to answer these things generally. But I think you just kind of need to look at all of the factors. Look at what you're in it for. Because, you know, another thing is a lot of questions like this, there is a implication that they're asking specifically, financially, what? How do you decide what to do in order to maximize your financial gain, but just straight up, there's a lot in NFT's for some people. Totally, and then, you know, some parts of some people's portfolios like us, where it's literally not about the money, it's about the collecting, and the fun and the community or whatever. And so, you know, that's just a whole separate issue, that you also need to look at what why do you own this NFT? And that'll also guide your decision making?

Roy: 1:28:22

Yeah, definitely good things to think about. I mean, it sort of comes back again, what you when you were talking about poker, and people asking questions, the most common answer and most accurate answer is always It depends. And you got to look at your situation, think about why you are in them your conviction in a project, etc, etc.

Jamie: 1:28:40

But yeah, again, this, this also just just hark back to the, to the owning multiple thing, because it really, it makes the decision less painful. Because if you have one of something, you know, it's just, it's, it's literally all or nothing, you know, unless sort of, you're doing that fractional art thing that we talked about a couple questions ago. But, you know, when you have multiple, you can kind of just, you can gradually get in and out of projects, and, you know, capture some upside, excuse me capture some upside. Well, while also still locking in some profits or, you know, at least making your potential loss smaller by getting back some of your initial price.

Roy: 1:29:21

Yeah, I agree. It's, I mean, it's easy to say just buy more of the thing but it can be difficult if your bankroll is small but yeah, maybe consider instead of buying an NFT 4.15 instead buy three of the one project for point or five. Right? Yeah. All right. That was that question gone gone color Gonzalo live. I'm sorry for butchering your name, gun collar, all the varia says, as I mentioned on Discord talking about your past and how you first came in contact with NFTS In crypto, it's we haven't really talked about this on the podcast like, yeah, we just sort of dive straight into content. But yeah, how'd you get into Kryptos? And NFT?

Jamie: 1:30:10

That's a good question. I'm trying to really go back in my mind and figure out how exactly I got into crypto. I think I knew about Bitcoin quite early. And I definitely had some friends that were quite into it. And it immediately I would say, made sense to me. But what didn't make sense to me about Bitcoin specifically, because, you know, at the time, there was no competitors. Or, you know, if there were, they were so nascent, that it wasn't maybe super worth worrying about it. But anyway, I digress. I didn't really understand why somebody base basically just make their own version of Bitcoin that was more secure, for instance. And over time, I learned about basically the trade offs between, you know, speed and security and all of that stuff. But I think ultimately, the, the, the truest answer to why you couldn't just do something like that was, they had the first mover advantage, and they had the network effects. You know, you could do something that was technologically exactly the same as Bitcoin, but you don't have miners, you don't have users. And you're not bringing anything new to the table. But, yeah, it was just something that I heard about, I'm sure through some of our gambling friends, because we were professional poker players for a very long time. And we were also sort of in a position where we had a use for these cryptocurrencies in a way that the general population for the most part didn't, when people were saying, you know, it's just for money laundering or drug deal or, or whatever, you know, all that bullshit. We were already a lot of times in situations where we had literal use cases for this stuff. And we're allowed to do stuff with them that we couldn't do with regular fiat currencies,

Roy: 1:32:12

like play online poker, like play online

Jamie: 1:32:15

poker, or, you know, repay debts to people that were in other countries without having to wait for days or whatever, for a bank to approve it.

Roy: 1:32:26

How about NFT's how'd you get into NFT's?

Jamie: 1:32:30

I was taking a little sip of water there, um, how I got into NFT's was basically, um, you know, again, I've had friends that were into crypto, and I got into it as well. And I would say one in particular has just really paid attention to the whole scene in a very, very holistic way, for a long time, whereas I would sort of dip in and out and get busy doing poker stuff or sports betting stuff or just whatever in life, whereas this friend of mine kept paying attention to the crypto market, and I guess it would have probably been somewhere in the December ish, maybe range, he started talking about NFT's quite a lot. And it seemed it seemed like a scam, to be honest. You know, he wasn't he was more talking about specific projects at the time, rather than the concept as a whole. So it was sort of easier for me to imagine that he was just sort of talking about a specific thing that was basically a scam. And he kind of tried to explain why it wasn't and it never really quite clicked to me. But then somewhere in I think February I read a post by one of my favorite technology writers Paki McCormack and we've mentioned him in this specific article before but we're going to give another shout out to it. He wrote a great great write up on his sub stack is substack is called not boring. And this particular post was called power to the person and it was basically all about the, you know, the creator economy that people talk about now, and how empowered it is by NFTs and just all the potential that is there for NFTs. And it totally made sense to me after I read it. And I read it and I immediately said I need to buy a crypto punk. And then I got the sad news that they already costed like 30 something $1,000 And I could not afford a crypto punk. But yeah, that that was basically my path going from first hearing about NFTs to being super super suspicious of them to being totally convinced that they were an absolutely world changing technological advancement.

Roy: 1:34:50

That was your entry into NFT's is pretty similar to mine.

Jamie: 1:34:54

Yeah. So that that actually the group chat with that friend of mine. Eventually I just brought you into it Tim And then it seemed like you kind of jumped in a little bit quicker than me but, but not a ton.

Roy: 1:35:06

Yeah. So, I mean before Krypton NFT's we're both professional poker players for like 15 years we've spoken about that. Basically, we went from high school to university both dropped out of university, and then poker for a very long time. And I, again first heard about Bitcoin way back in the day, I don't know 2013 or something, maybe earlier, there was talk about in the poker community, there was a pretty popular poker site seals with clubs that was traded in Bitcoin and people playing enormous sized pots. If you think about the value in today's money,

Jamie: 1:35:42

yeah, they weren't so big then. But if you if you look at the price of Bitcoin now, holy cow, they get better.

Roy: 1:35:48

Yeah. But yeah, I never really thought too much of it. I never really seriously considered it as a good place or a place that I wanted to park money you're invested in, and then I think it was early 2016. Or around then you messaged me, and you were like, hey, this Ethereum thing, should we be buying some? I think it was out of me like $15 at the time or something. And neither of us did. We didn't really look too much into it or seriously invested. I mean, maybe you looked into it a bit more. But yeah, we didn't buy any. And then obviously, more and more people started talking about it hearing about it, it blew up, we got in relatively early.

Jamie: 1:36:33

Yeah, my memory is that I first got some bitcoin, when it was about 750. And then once it was maybe about 1200 ish, and Aetherium was about 100 ish. I think I converted some bitcoin to Aetherium. And that would have been sometime in like, 2017 or something, maybe?

Roy: 1:36:58

Yeah, I, I think I bought my first theorem somewhere between the $100 million range. And, yeah, I mean, I, I was really into it at the time, like, obviously, the there was this crazy bull market, and the prices just kept going up. So it was really easy to be into it and excited about it. But um, you know, I was reading posts on Reddit, and things, people were talking about smart contracts and daps. And the potential and it sounded amazing to me, but I didn't really have the technological savviness or know how to really envision the future that it would bring, like, all it was, so few people there. Yeah. Shout out to snow for he was one of the early ones who got it. But yeah, so I thought, hey, this sounds really, really cool. But I couldn't imagine the depths in reality and how people will be using them. And so I was invested in it, and I really liked it, but I didn't have the same level of conviction that other people did, and that I do now. And so, sort of rode that bull market made, you know, Bitcoin went up to whatever it did. 20 30,000 Ethereum went up to a couple 1000. And all these alt coins did really well. And then, you know, I was making good money, and then it came crashing down bear market hit. And it was sort of like you said, Alright, yeah, back to Poker back to real life. not that interesting anymore. And then yeah, sort of start of this year. Again, it was your and via this friend of ours, you asked me sort of like you did the theory. I really have you to thank you. Like, have you ever heard of a hash mosque? And I was like, No. And then you sent me some screenshots from the chat and then of hash masks. And again, as you fell, I was like, these guys are just getting scammed. This is a Ponzi scheme. What what is

Jamie: 1:38:50

happening on the HashMap didn't seem as bad as that bull run babes thing. He was talking about that, because that one was like, well, you exchange six of the gold ones, and you get a rainbow one is like, Oh my God, this sounds like some bows. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:39:03

It's like some sort of cult thing. You can level up and pay $3,000 get to the next level. Yeah.

Jamie: 1:39:13

Wanted to say though, you talking there kind of reminded me. I think what was happening a little bit with me was, again, you you touched on the the possibilities of the smart contracts and all that I remember being very excited about that. And then again, when the prices came down, losing that interest, but last year, late last year, sort of hearing the rumblings that a lot of this stuff that was very theoretical, I guess, because what happened was, we had what people now call defy summer last year, and I was sort of hearing from this friend about the gains he was making and the things that you could do, you know, he was talking about like maker Dow and the dye stable coin and all this stuff like a long time ago. But yeah, anyway, I was I was sort of hearing that a lot of these possibilities. That sounded very cool a long time ago, that made me more excited about Aetherium than about Bitcoin, we're now actually coming to fruition and people had really started building this stuff out. So I was actually, I think I kind of got into NFT's more because I was trying to explore d phi. And then I just kind of accidentally stumbled into NFTs and have largely ignored d phi as NFT's are so much more fun and also have lately been so much more profitable.

Roy: 1:40:35

Yeah, it NFT is really all just, they're just more fun and more cool, exciting. Interesting. And yeah, I mean, I didn't get it to begin with. But then again, I read the same article, as you did power to the post,

Jamie: 1:40:48

we will, we will again, link it in the show notes, probably the third or fourth time we had it.

Roy: 1:40:52

And it sort of it clicked and I was like I went in and I bought some punks tokens. So like basically some sort of exposure to the crypto punks. And then

Jamie: 1:41:03

there is a fractionalized thing just like we were talking about, but I think those were maybe on NFT X or something like that a different a different platform, but basically doing the same thing.

Roy: 1:41:11

Yeah, I really didn't understand it. Like, I asked you how to do it. And you asked this other friend of ours how to do it. And it was like, Yeah, you just use Metamask a go to sushi swap. And it was like, What the what, how what? So yeah, yeah, imagining Yeah, it's just such a foreign world. And sometimes I forget, I'm sure we all forget what it's like for a newcomer to the space. Like this, the learning curve is so incredibly steep, oh,

Jamie: 1:41:40

my God, I got wrecked trying to do defy because like, I had maybe, you know, like 2000 or, or $4,000 ish worth of Aetherium. And I was like, Yeah, I'm just gonna do some of this stuff. And like, had no idea how many approvals I would need to give, and how much gas was going to be consuming my money on the way in and out of these farms and liquidity pools and all that stuff. And it just, it did not work well for me because I was not educated enough. And I was not working with either enough capital or on the right blockchain. You know, one of those two needed to be different. Yeah,

Roy: 1:42:19

I think almost all of us go through costly learning.

Jamie: 1:42:26

Like ever. Yeah, and I never did like a rug poll, when I was trying to do it. I just, I didn't appreciate how much how much you needed to be doing, how much money you need to be using on a theorem for the gas, not to just, you know, really eat into all of it. But also, like, specifically, I remember doing a thing on one inch. And I think I accidentally gave approval for the same thing like three or four times in a row. Like it was really, really bad. And this was at the time I remember you were trying to tell me, I should be doing it on binance. But I was sort of being a bit of a decentralization, maximalist and going that's, that's not really defined to me. So I want to try and do this. And I'm not sure if I should have listened. Because ultimately, this these sort of mistakes might have just sent me the NFT is quicker, which I think would have worked better than doing defi. On on by Nance. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure. Been again, way more fun.

Roy: 1:43:25

Yes. Oh, defined by Nance. I mean, yeah. What was I gonna say? Yeah, that's sort of my how I got into NFT's, I guess how we got into NFTs. And then it was just sort of like, so cool and exciting at that point that it, the allure was always there. It's like, I want to know, the NFT. Having an NFC in your wallet is cool, and fun and exciting. And yeah, it's just yeah, it's been learning nonstop since the end, it still is like this so much, so much to learn and do and think about. And there's so much cool news. And as

Jamie: 1:43:58

you're, as you're fond of saying, we are so early, so like the level of complexity and utility. And all that stuff that we're going to see going forward is just going to be expanding so much like if you compare what Bored Ape Yatch Club was and when it mented to what it is now. It's sort of crazy, right? Yeah. Because initially it was it was just a picture file. But then, you know, it's, it's giving you you've got these companion drops, and you have these games that you're getting to play the treasure hunt. We're getting, you know, these merch things, there's literally a club being built in Miami. And now there's there's going to be a blockchain game which you know, maybe it'll be sort of a Zed type thing with the dogs or something xe or, or, you know, probably more likely it'll be a much more original thing of their own, you know, but, boy, it's just there's so much that has sprung out of. And that's that's kind of what you know the word composability people talk about a lot in the in the NFT space, to where you can just kind of take a thing. And it doesn't have to be that complex to begin with, but because it can interact with all these other things, you know, all of this stuff sort of acts like Legos. And you can kind of just build on top of it without having to have it all done at the beginning.

Roy: 1:45:29

Yeah, these are really like the building blocks, or some of the building blocks that, you know, years from now. It's just Yeah, it's so cool. And the potential is so incredible. Yeah, it's just, it's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah. I think that that answers the question.

Jamie: 1:45:50

It sure does. Yeah. Pretty thorough. Yep. The Green Giant says top five projects to buy now 4.25, eth or less?

Roy: 1:46:01

Wow. So I bought a bunch of projects recently, which obviously I have some level of conviction in them, for buying them and not selling them. Especially part of my 1/8 challenge, because I really had to look at some of the, the cheaper, or the lower cost projects to get involved with a few that come to mind. There's one called YOLO dice. They basically 33,636 NFT's of dice are images of dice that were random generated. So you get two dice, and each one to six, so you get 36 different combinations. And that the team are basically saying that they're going to build use these to build like, board games for the metaverse like online board games on blockchain with potentially played earn mechanics with like, there's a governance token The Dow is just it seems cool. I don't fully know what they're building, but I read some some of the Twitter threads and chatted them a bit in discord. They've been working at it for a while, they have worked on other successful projects. Before this,

Jamie: 1:47:14

is it on Polygon?

Roy: 1:47:16

No, it's uh, this is on Main net on Aetherium. But who knows where the actual games are gonna be played? Right? Because

Jamie: 1:47:23

it seems like before eth 2.0 You're, you can't really do that much stuff directly on eth. You know, like, yeah, if you're playing a board game, you can't have every move of the board game be actually interacting with eth main net or Or you'd have to zillionaire to, to go around the board once or whatever.

Roy: 1:47:41

Yeah, I don't know the logistics of how it would work. But it just seemed like a cool different project, compared to all these peripheral pic avatar projects. So and I think the floor price is under point one at the moment. So YOLO dice. Another one is again, another cool different thing called citadels of the machine. So these minted out

Jamie: 1:48:00

Oh, yeah, those looks good. I tried to get one. But I did not use enough gas, which is common for me under Oh,

Roy: 1:48:05

they're real. You're in luck deployment. So yes, I'll grab a couple tonight minted out at point, oh, four, five, maybe a week ago, no less than a week or five days ago, something. And essentially, what you're buying is a little 3d cube, which is sort of your character, or your avatar in this game that that they've already created. And they're continuing to build out. And it's sort of like a, like a puzzle platformer type of game, right?

Jamie: 1:48:34

A 3d puzzle platformer sounds very accurate.

Roy: 1:48:36

It sort of gives me some vibes to like, like Portal, those kind of games where, you know, you got to use your brain. It's not about who can be the fastest. So like, mash buttons quickly begin to figure things out and move objects around to interact with each other. I

Jamie: 1:48:51

was like doing that stuff in RPGs, when they would have a little Ramadan at

Roy: 1:48:55

the shrines in Breath of the Wild. Yeah. Yeah, so So you buy a design an NFT, it's your little avatar, to use it in the game. But they've also developed a sort of sandbox style game creator, where anyone can create their own maps or their levels. And then there's sort of a play to earn mechanic where I think the the map creators will earn some sort of token for people who play their maps or like the most popular maps, I'm not sure if playing earns you anything. Again, it's not fully fleshed out. But it seems cool. That I mean, they have you can play the game. It's like you go to the website you can play that's so much further ahead than almost any other project that people are buying into. So I would look into that at the moment, the full price like point or two, so it's still very, very cheap and accessible. Yeah, do you have any projects under point two, five?

Jamie: 1:49:51

I do. And you know, these are projects that I've mentioned before, but the the factory project that I talked about earlier Event Horizon sunsets, if you don't have any generative art in your portfolio or you want some more, I would consider looking at those. I like them and, and the prices is below point two five right now as far as I know. And even if it's not, it's it's only a bit above it and you can definitely bid under point two, five and have a chance of success. I think it is below point two five right now though. And then another one that I've talked about a lot and will probably continue to talk about is the Royal Society of players. So last time I checked, the floor was like point one six for the cards, actually check again right now. But that is an interesting differentiated and fun NFT project that I own a bunch of pieces of yes, the floor price right now is point one, seven. So that's another one that I would I would look into and you know, is quite different from Event Horizon sunsets. So you got you got on the one hand, the the generative art and then the Royal Society of players, you've got a sort of this community with utility and giveaways and real life events and stuff like that. They're just kind of doing a lot of interesting stuff. So those are a couple that I would, I would recommend looking at.

Roy: 1:51:25

I'm going to recommend one more, that will give us five in total, and that's glue factory show. And this is a project that launched one or two months ago, probably closer to two. And it's I think 10,000 10,000 holds NFT's and basically the premise is that they are creating an animated show. Based around these NFT's these horses if they feature your horse in a show you get paid some amount of royalties or if they

Jamie: 1:51:56

feature your breed just the same breed

Roy: 1:52:00

of horse. That's that's the I mean, that's a lot better than But yeah, if you have one you can sort of get you can like pitch ideas to the riders and talk and converse with them. And they have like a pretty good crew of like riders and stuff on board.

Jamie: 1:52:17

Yeah, legitimate comedians who rob Belushi I know of him wise. Coffee Don is a very funny guy. Holton,

Roy: 1:52:24

Dawn. Yeah, so like, this is legit. Like what really made me buy the project basically, is I saw it when it was missing. On their website. They have a YouTube video. It's a trailer of the animated short, and it just made me laugh. I was like this is well made. And it's funny and like, comparing it to like a couple of weeks before that, there was this stone accounts, and it drove by Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis. And like, I watched the trailer or even the like five minute episode one, and it didn't do anything for me. And so like, this one makes me laugh is NFT. I mean, and so I bought a ton.

Jamie: 1:52:58

Yeah, the tokenomics of this seemed better. And the price was a lot cheaper. Oh, yeah. And I guess you liked the content. But I didn't I didn't actually watch the trailer for either one.

Roy: 1:53:08

Yeah, well, no. I mean, yeah, it was funny. And I think this is another project, which, I guess maybe similar to Jenkins, the valet where the prices dropped below min, I think it's around point three 4.5. Now mint was point one, I want to say, which is fairly high, but it is what it is. and way less than stoner cats. Yep. So it got to the point three, five. So if you compare, yeah, it's just crazy. Yeah. So I think it's one of those ones where, you know, they're working on the show that every week, you can see them in the writers room that they're talking and they released these YouTube videos of, you know, the process and all sorts of stuff. And I'm sort of talking myself into sweeping the floor a bit now. But maybe I'll wait till after this is released, so listeners can buy if they're still at this price, and they find it interesting and want to get involved that

Jamie: 1:53:57

I have two of them. Yeah,

Roy: 1:53:59

I have. I think I mentioned 7070 or 80. So yeah, it was one of my bigger aims. I mean, I didn't sell any, they they pumped a bit afterwards. But it's one of those projects, which I always I felt like it's more likely to do well in the medium term term of a few months rather than just instantly pump and continue. Yeah, like, because it's not one of those ones necessarily where people are going to use the horses as their Twitter, right. It's

Unknown: 1:54:25

on a profile pic.

Roy: 1:54:27

No, it's It's

Jamie: 1:54:28

immediate, you know, just sort of FOMO and community thing going on Twitter. Yeah, that that can kind of send some of the other ones like cool cats or lazy lions or sub ducks or whatever, up much more aggressively and quickly.

Roy: 1:54:41

Yeah. And I think a lot of people bought into it expecting that pumping and had just been dumping and not having the long term conviction that I guess I do, or some of us do. And yes, it's on sale.

Jamie: 1:54:55

Here's the thing that I'll say when you're looking at something with a floor price as low as point For like, like this, for instance, and this was coming up for me recently, because that Royal Society of players, they also had a companion drop that was chips, poker chips, basically, that has some utility or whatever that we don't need to get into now. But there for price was very similar to this glue factory show. This is a situation where, if you can, you're going to be so much better off bidding versus buying, because the the owner of it will have to accept your offer and pay the gas, which you know, when when you're looking at a cost of like point oh four, the gas price is going to be close to 20% of the total cost of it. Maybe. So if you could, yeah. So if you can have that on the owner, slash seller rather than you. That's going to really improve your cost basis a lot.

Roy: 1:55:56

Yeah, I mean, you can even just bid what the price is. Yep. And it's just a good way to save a bit of money. And right. Yeah. I want one more. One more project that I'm going to throw out there. It's called crypto months. And this is another one that minted out at point o three, maybe a week or two ago, no less than a week, man. Time is weird. sometime this week. And it's it's sort of an avatar project. And the person who created behind it is like a sort of a well known artist in traditional auto like non LFTR. And he has, I'm looking at the web page. Now he has a professorship professorship at New York University in the School of Visual Arts. He's lectured in a bunch of places he has advised at, like, I think Christie's and Sotheby's he's had his own artwork, they're actually actually auctioned off. So he's established. He's an artist. And he's sort of taken a real big interest in NFT's and in the NFT space. And this is his sort of, like, project, his avatar project. I think he's he's sold stuff on on other platforms, but he's going to create, he's going to give out like a token to people he's going to create, like, I mean, everyone's doing a token these days. But he's creating this sort of ecosystem. And yeah, I mean, I think it's, it hasn't really taken off the floor prices around mint now maybe slightly less. Just check it out. See if the art appeals to you, if the artist and community, it's a really good price point. And yeah, I have a bunch of them, obviously, because I know that I'm talking about it. Yeah.

Jamie: 1:57:37

We're gonna end up going way over the five because I just thought of a couple other ones, the chicken Derby that I've talked about. And even you can get Zed horses for under point two, five now as well. Those are both definitely worth looking into, in my opinion. And I also got into an avatar project recently called superlative secret society. I don't know if you heard about them much. But basically, I just I saw them on Twitter. And I thought the art was good and differentiated. So I bought a couple of them. The for price is point o nine. I don't actually know very much at all about them. Other than that, the art looked good to me, and very unique. So I thought maybe it'd be worth getting a couple. So I did. So those are a couple other things you could look into.

Roy: 1:58:26

Yeah. I mean, I could go on, but for the sake of brevity.

Jamie: 1:58:31

Yeah. Well, that was for five.

Roy: 1:58:35

Yeah. All right. Dot eth asks, Do you have more net worth in NFT's or outside of them? Jamie,

Jamie: 1:58:45

my mind is actually vaguely close. But I do think it's more in NFT's by a little bit. Yeah. I was not close at all. That's a lot. When

Roy: 1:58:56

I saw that. I have I'm pretty sure I have more net worth in my fidenza. Yeah, outside of NFT's definitely there. Yes. I mean, that's one NFT. And it's yeah, it's ludicrous. How much? I mean, people talk about I talk about financial responsibility and diversification and, and all that kind of stuff. And then I probably have between 80 and 90% of my net worth in, in NFT's. But I guess I just have such strong conviction in

Jamie: 1:59:25

Yeah. So let me ask you a question about that conviction a little bit because, like when you talk to somebody who is not a believer at all, or is only a vague believer, they'll sort of talk about the possibilities of how all this could sort of go to zero. I'm wondering, like outside of really scary, like legal legislative stuff, just in terms of market participants getting bored or, or deciding that it's all nonsense. Like how far do you envision, theoretically, that really, really premium stuff, like the best art box curated and punks can go, like, I can't actually envision this stuff, dumping more than, I don't know, 80% or whatever. Oh, and whereas it seems like a lot of people really do feel like these things can can all fall 99% I think some of this stuff is just too culturally ingrained.

Roy: 2:00:27

No, I definitely agree. I think I see the 99% thing thrown out a lot. But I think people are saying that, like, the non blue chip stuff can drop No. 9% and that I kind of agree.

Jamie: 2:00:37

We are definitely people in the space, but like, I think people that are adjacent to the space. Yeah. You know, like crypto people that are not quite into NFTs. Yeah. I think some of them still think like, this stuff is all going yeah, they

Roy: 2:00:50

don't get it. They don't get it. They're not gonna make it. They're not gonna make a change. Yeah, I have just such strong conviction in the space as a whole, obviously, but specifically, the projects where I'm most heavily invested in op looks. Bored apes. blitmaps. Cool Cats now, because I've gone crazy. Yeah, so like, it's I didn't have 80 90% of my net worth in NFT's five months ago, when I started investing it just because they have grown just happened. Yeah, yeah. And like, I didn't decide one day, hey, I want my allocation to be 90% entities, it just became that way. And because it helps us grow conviction in most of these projects. And because I don't need the money, I don't have to cash out to sustain life will pay for bills. Rachel has a good job. I am cashing out a little bit, but I can just I've grown my my portfolio has grown so much that I'm in a fortunate position where I can keep most of it. And if it dumps 80%, which seems unlikely even I could see a 50% dump and we already have seen basically a 50% dump a few weeks ago. It just it's kind of water of my back at this point. I'm like, I really I love this stuff. I believe in it. longwater off

Jamie: 2:02:08

my back. That's not an expression here. I don't think

Unknown: 2:02:11

really?

Jamie: 2:02:12

Yeah, we have it's no skin off my back. Do you have that?

Roy: 2:02:16

Yeah, that's definitely want me just make that up.

Jamie: 2:02:19

I might have that I

Roy: 2:02:24

anyway, it's, it's my skin. My water. My bad. It's what it's that? Um, yeah, it. It doesn't bother me that much. It's like, if I it's sort of like, I could sell more at really high prices. But then I would just take that money and buy more NFT's. Yeah, it's just, I there's also like the the tax implications, like, my tax situation is better than yours. But if I'm going to be selling for lenses and other things, I'm still going to want to wait over a year. And stuff like that.

Jamie: 2:03:01

Yeah. Next question. Scott BDG. He says, ask three questions, but just pick this one. Now. I really

Roy: 2:03:11

liked that meeting. You went? Okay. He asked three questions. And I just picked I see. I see. Thank you brevity.

Jamie: 2:03:17

What's your evaluation process before deciding whether to make a new profile pic project? I'll tell you what Royce's Roy's if he has heard of it. And he has access to a an internet connected device. At the time of the moment. He will mint it that and he appears to be your evaluation process.

Roy: 2:03:37

I mean, it's it isn't it? Isn't. It used to not be? It used to not be? Well, for a long time closer to being it though. No, cuz there's just so many projects now that yes,

Jamie: 2:03:51

it is actually crazy.

Roy: 2:03:52

I hear. And I get literally like 20 people a day, sending me a message. Hey, have you heard about this? Hey, what do you think about this? And so now I hear about all these projects. And then I don't mean any of them. And then I find out five of them just mooned and I'm like, Ah, probably should have looked at that, or one has just means it out. And I'm like, Oh, this looks cool. I'll go by on secondary. But yeah, I do like to mint more than most, if I can. I think that. I guess I'm at the point now where it's not deciding whether or not to mint it's dry mint three, or do I mean 50. And the ones where I want to make more and have more conviction is I look for something unique and new is is a benefit, but it's not necessary, like another cat project is probably going to be very successful, despite not being that new. What I really like is sort of the team, knowing who's involved with the project. If the more and more I want them to be not anonymous, I want them to I want to know who they are. I want to know what they've worked on in the past. Like, has the artists been creating art for 10 years? I've been creating this character for 10 years. Is there already know

Jamie: 2:05:07

me so much of cool cats, because actually, that's a they had been doing the art for a while. And I remember before I bought in just I think I mentioned this in a previous one, but reading the write up from the creators about their process of coming up with the NFT project. Yeah, and the care they put into the smart contract. And the ability to just make the code a little bit more efficient, at various levels to save gas money for the mentors made me think this is this is the opposite of a cash grab. This is a high effort project by long term builders. man Yeah. So Well, I think they were already kind of expensive at the time, and like art blocks, which I had almost all of my NFT money in, you know, that, that in the ape, they both just had not gone up a lot. And so I was just not interested in selling them. And I did I just didn't have liquid F really? Yeah. You know, I would maybe I would sell like one art blocks piece for what now appears to be a terrible deal. And then like, maybe that's how I got my cool cat or whatever. But I, I did not have Liquid Ass for so long. Yeah, but yes, for my answer to the question, you know, he's in there specifically asking about profile pictures. It starts with art for me, if we're talking about a profile picture thing, is it? Is it art that appeals to me? And is it art that I think will appeal to others? is the first question. And then after that I'm looking at the the price and the what, what is differentiated about the project? Does it look like it's just more of the same? If so, I'm not that excited about it. But if there's something unique about it, I'm more likely to but you know, honestly, for a profile picture, the things I'm definitely looking at, by far the most are the art and the main price.

Roy: 2:07:12

Yeah, I mean, I hear a lot of people say that, and I guess I'm probably in the minority, and maybe in the minority, where I don't look at the art that much. I think it's nice to have art that I like, but like, we've seen clearly that plenty of projects succeed. Without art that's quote unquote, great, or objectively high quality, like even like pixelated projects.

Jamie: 2:07:37

I'm thinking of like those cryptoads, which people seem to love, but to me that that is not art, that is something that I like, or would want as a profile picture, or could have imagined that other people really would. So that that's something that I missed out on with this. But, you know, this is another thing is you're gonna have, we've talked about it before, but you're gonna miss out on a lot of stuff. And you can't just try to get everything and you can't give up your own opinion. And, you know, analysis, just because it didn't work out one time, because no matter what strategy you approach this way, you're gonna have fuck ups in this space. Yeah. So you got to you got to come up with a set of, you know, beliefs or things that you use that you look at, when you're making these decisions that you feel comfortable with whether or not it works out.

Roy: 2:08:37

Yeah, that's 100% True. I want to add that when I said that, I don't really look at the art as much. I think if you're minting a profile pic project, and you're going to use that as your avatar, then 100% Art is the most important thing. Because it's sort of becoming your identity, your Metaverse identity, your you're going to be part of that community. And if you don't like it, I mean, you don't have to love it. But if you don't like it, then it's just very difficult to feel that connection and maybe others won't feel that connection. And that's where the investment perspective comes into play. But yeah, I guess more and more the team for me is what I look at more than anything.

Jamie: 2:09:18

Yeah, and but NASA how do you how do you look at a team before the project is really going because, you know, in retrospect, we can see that for instance, the Bored Ape Yatch Club team over at Yuga Labs was quite good but maybe it would have been quite hard to tell that at the beginning before they had had done stuff other than you know just the initial drop Yeah, looking for I think lander in the discord talking to people

Roy: 2:09:47

if I can be Yeah, usually these days I will I find out about projects so last minute like it's minting now cuz I get like people spamming me on Discord saying it's about to mint out or minting just opened, etc, and so on. Do a lot of my research in like four minutes. And I will go to the Twitter pages of the people behind it. Sometimes they have like, threads on on their thought process, you can see links to other projects they may have worked on, you know, even if it's not in the NFT space, if it's if they've worked at other successful companies or launch successful companies, and that's a big plus, go into the discord, read the announcements, you can get a pretty good overview of like, you know, look at their roadmap, what's their vision? How are they communicating with the community? Are they thoughtful conscientious about gas and gas was and minting and just all sorts of things like community focused and not just price focused, like a lot of this on projects, you go into the discord, and everyone's just talking about pumping the price and the full price and this and the other and the team members, they are talking, telling people to do lists, and that's a big turn off. But um, yeah, obviously, that's after the fact offers Minson. But beforehand, yeah, I think you can find enough info about the team just by I mean, as long as they're not anonymous. Look at the Twitter pages, you find so much information, just scrolling through there, like last, you know, 50 tweets or whatever. And you don't have to read them all, but just get a feel for it. And a lot of it is just feeling it out. Like there's no a lot of people ask me this a lot, but there's no like, you can't really look at what to project what project to meant by like, certain metrics. You can't say, if it checks this, this, this box, that I'm gonna miss it, and it's going to be successful, you just spent time looking into it reading, minting some and having the music festival meeting, some have not been successful experience, and you just start to get like a gut feeling for how things are gonna go. And, yeah, it's,

Jamie: 2:11:47

there's also just to me a lot of inherent randomness to where, you know, specifically for like a profile picture project. A lot of it's just it touches on or it doesn't, and that might have to do with, you know, a couple specific, more important figures trying to use them, or the art just resonated widely enough that people want to use it. But it's, it's so much about the community in those things that you know, like, if, if a project, a profile picture project comes out, say on a Monday, and people like it, I can envision a world where it would end up being quite successful in one universe, but then, you know, some alternate universe we're on Wednesday or Thursday, another one comes out that people also happen to like, before that first one can really quit reach that critical mass, this one can kind of just pull the attention away. And, you know, on on the Monday when you're going to mint that you wouldn't necessarily know that on Wednesday or Thursday, this other project is going to come along and steal just enough thunder of it to stop this one from reaching a sort of cultural critical mass to make it actually a project that people are using for their profile picture widespread for a long time, you know, to make a growing community.

Roy: 2:13:23

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of randomness. There's like some sort of X factor that makes some projects successful. And some not that no one can figure out a predictable or no. And yeah, I mean, you just got to, you could think a project is going to be everything and buy into it. And by all accounts, it seems Excellent. People love it and just doesn't take off. And then sometimes as a project that looks awful by all metrics, you can't fathom why it's taking off and it takes off. It's just if you eat yourself up and sort of like banging your head against the wall, trying to figure out why. Too much. All this is happening. It's gonna drive you crazy. Just realize there is so much randomness involved. It's it's, you got to sort of embrace it and just accept it, I guess. Yeah. All right. That's the end of Twitter

Jamie: 2:14:15

q&a, q&a. What is your update on the One S challenge, right?

Roy: 2:14:24

The one F challenge if you're new to this podcast, then go and listen to last week's episode. But basically, I'm trying to turn one eth into a lot more. It's been I think it's been going about eight days or nine days last week. When I made my update. It had just just started. I'd say it's going well. I'm pretty happy with the progress. I haven't lost all the money basically.

Jamie: 2:14:50

So last last I heard I think you had about you had three NFT's and about point four Aetherium left where where do you stand now and how did you get from there to here?

Roy: 2:15:00

Alright, so I have about .4 etherium left as well. But I have 24 and entities. So that's interesting. Yeah, a lot of them were very cheap or low or free, sorry to mint, maybe like three of them are free. But a lot of them. I got 4.0 2.3. And then a few actually, I paid point one, ish four. So last week, I think I just bought the sevens. And I realized pretty quickly, that was a poor idea to have that much liquidity locked up in in one project, and I decided I'm going to move from market buying, I'm going to wrap some eth and just make a bunch of bids. Because that's one of the I still think it is probably one of the best ways to grow a small bankroll, because as you mentioned before, when you make bids, if they accepted, you don't pay the gas. And with a one eth bankroll or less, that's a huge deal. But also, you can basically get a lot if you're paying less than the floor, yeah, usually get 20 to 50%, even off the floor price if you're if you're successful and lucky. But the downside is it takes time to make lots of bids. And I for the first day or two I was, you know, I maybe spent hour, hour and a half total, making a bunch of bids, none of them hit. And then it just got to the point where I was too busy with other things to sit down and make hundreds of bids, which is what you really should be doing. To be successful, I think. And yeah, eventually I just started, I guess minting and buying things again, because I wanted to progress with the project. I had pretty good success on a few things. I'm into a or I claimed a non fungible bones. It was free plus gas, and I still have it, I haven't sold it. The full price is I think around point one, five 2.2. So that's one of my betta NFT's that I've got in the wall.

Jamie: 2:16:52

I got one of those as well. Great. Like the time I had I had a I guess it didn't, it wasn't rare, because I think all of them aside from like the one of ones where I think approximately as rare but it's just seemed like the market likes the style of mine a little bit better. So it was maybe worth like one and a half times for whatever and I think I sold it for like point 180 Nice.

Roy: 2:17:17

Yeah, so that's that's a cool project that I'm into for free. Another one I mentioned freeze, they called glitches or the glitches. And I sold that for point one, five. That's just a really nice boost to the bankroll when it's so small. And so these free projects, they're good, they can be difficult to find. I don't like the way I find out about them. It's just again by being in lots of discords and having people tweet, tweets or message them in various discord. And the only way to do that. I joined my Discord. People have started posting about them in there. But just join tons of discord talk to people network, you'll find discord where people are sharing information. It just It happens all the time in this space. And eventually you'll find these free opportunities. And yeah, I mean, you'll meet them, some of them will be great, like the bones and the glitches, some of them will not. So I'm into something called plotting pirates plunder, which is just like some pixelated images of like, pirates plunder. Basically you get a bit of gold or sword jewels, and it's basically worthless. So that was a dud, I minted five citadels of the machines and again, their price, the full prices tanked. So that's not going so well. I'd say that the biggest true winners would be actually no, the biggest winner would be something called entropy, or entropy. It's called it's a generative art project, where effectively every time you buy or sell or transfer, whenever the NFL I heard about these, he sounded interesting. Yeah, whenever the NFT goes from one wallet to another, it sort of evolves. And there's sort of the art changes. And so it's ever evolving. And it's just, I don't think we've seen it before, to quite this extent. And the launch was a dumpster fire, basically, it was bothered. And then they had a Dutch auction and people hated it. And eventually,

Jamie: 2:19:17

like they change to a Dutch auction to counter the bots,

Roy: 2:19:20

um, they were always going to do a Dutch auction, I think that they, they'd released some and then they like, the, the plan was to like release it in batches. And then like between the first release, and the second, they get way more popularity. So they're like, Alright, we're gonna release like 400 and then the rest we'll do a Dutch auction and the 400 or were taken by a bot basically. And then the Dutch auction started point five and dropped 2.1 And then no one was buying and then it's, it's, I was I stopped paying attention because it was like that disastrous and I was like, this is not really a good project. And and then I checked in on it later was like, alright, point nine. I was like, okay, and then I saw a secondary they were like rough For the same price, I thought the concept was really cool. So like alright, mint. And then I didn't realize this was a mistake that they were doing another Dutch auction. And so price went from point A nine all the way down to point oh three, when they finally sold out, had I waited, I could have got much, much cheaper but it worked out fine in the long run the floor of the whole project now is point 2.21 or something. And I got lucky with my mint. It's sort of like a solid base, which is rare. And the floor of that is around point five. So I like sort of put together the value or what I thought my wallet was worth yesterday, like point. One 1.7 I think is roughly what it's at which, you know, one weekend or one each challenge to almost double it. I'm pretty happy. But a lot of this is unrealized gains, of course, so we have to make sure that well, yeah, it's not really worth it

Jamie: 2:20:56

to those sounds like it's or not week two, but I guess that's not fair. Because the last time we talked about it was one week ago, but you're basically a day and a half. Yeah, yeah, but it seems like your update. Nothing had gone great. And then this week, you've made some nice progress.

Roy: 2:21:13

Yeah, the first three days basically, I made a bunch of mistakes, but and I made a mistake

Jamie: 2:21:18

on what are the what are you supposed to do in life when you make mistakes, though?

Roy: 2:21:22

make lemonade. No, you learn from them? Oh, that's that's, that's more accurate when

Jamie: 2:21:28

you when you know, no, no lemons off my back.

Roy: 2:21:35

No skin in the game. All right.

Jamie: 2:21:38

For some lemonade, right off my bat.

Roy: 2:21:41

Um, yeah, so it's going pretty well, I've got a couple of the yellow dice as well. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm at the point now where I have not much eth left point, three, eight or something, and a bunch of NFT's. And, again, I'm sort of at a point where I could sell these and then spend time bidding and do other things. But I think I'm just sort of content to wait and see, I think some of these I can have 20 for NFT's. I think some of them are gonna do well in the medium term. And I'm not in a big rush. Like, I think maybe a mistake that a lot of people make with a smaller bankroll is just feeling like they have to be doing things and then they end up buying. I

Jamie: 2:22:28

think they were making that mistake in the first 100 days, right?

Roy: 2:22:31

Yeah, first few days of this, but even like, six months ago, the first few weeks of my NFT journey, it was like, Alright, I'm gonna buy some stuff, because it's fun, exciting, all right, I want to buy something, or I'm gonna sell this, it hasn't gone up in four days. It hasn't faded out yet. So you sell and then you pay gas to buy pay gas to sell. And it really chips away your bankroll. And, you know, I'm just happy to sit on my NFT's now. And if I see some free things, I'll mint. But I think patience is a virtue in every area. Obviously, sometimes the empty space, it pays to be just yoloing into things and like when there's so much hype and attention, but I think with a 1/8 bankroll or smaller or 1.7, if you want to say that now. It's prudent to be slow. Make haste slowly. Is the saying that you say a lot. And I agree with Yes, I

Unknown: 2:23:24

like that one. Yeah.

Roy: 2:23:26

So that's the one challenge update. What? You have your own pet project abstract of the day, not a pet project. Significant project? What's going on with that?

Jamie: 2:23:35

Yes. Well, today's day 100 Oh, thank you. I was waiting for that. And I actually got it from you. I'm not that's a big deal. To me. I is a big can't say that when I started it, I was super confident I would actually stick to it this long. And certainly there was there, there was not any sort of demand for the stuff that I was making for a while. So I had to kind of, I had to have all my motivation from within for a long time, before there was any sort of outside desire for what I was doing, but but now they sell every day, relatively quickly, I would say after I post them up, and there's some secondary sales and I have people on Twitter and discord, saying nice things to me about it and it just it feels exciting to have have just stripping out even the project. It's been awesome to make art again because, you know, I I have loved making art since maybe 2009 or 10 When I started painting, but it's just something that I so, so infrequently was able to find the time to do both because of a variety of reasons, I guess we all know how life is you have things you want to do, but you just, you don't find the time to do them. But this has given me a reason to keep at it and also doing it digitally rather than watercolors. Like, I don't have to go to my sink and rinse shut off at the end of it. You know, there's a lot more friction to doing watercolors than there is to working on my tablet. And it's just, it's, it's been a lot of fun. And I, I feel so much better at creating art now than I did at the beginning of it. So I feel I feel good about the artistic progress that I've made as well. Yeah. And so I posted day 100 today. And that one is an auction, which I normally don't do I just do a fixed price. Except I did the four different season ones. And then, you know, because of day 100 just it felt like a special milestone. So I've got that one up with a little utility built into it as well.

Roy: 2:26:06

And you're going to start day 101 Tomorrow, or wait till the AI ends.

Jamie: 2:26:10

I believe I will be doing a 101 Tomorrow. Very exciting. Yeah, that's that's what I did with the seasons as well. They were like five day auctions. But I would just keep keep putting out pieces in the in the, the following days as well.

Roy: 2:26:25

And so you're doing you've committed to another 100 days, do you think? Have you thought much beyond that? Are you going to go through for a year, or

Jamie: 2:26:32

I think I don't see myself stopping before day 365. At this point, I think I think my short term goal right now essentially, is to let's get to day 365 With the same project and the same open C sharp contract collection and just let's let's get 365 days of it before I even think about quitting or, or doing a new thing. And even when I say quitting, I think if I did stop, it would be a temporary thing. And then to bring it back in some sort of new format, because I'm just having a lot of fun. And I don't foresee me wanting to stop entirely at all.

Roy: 2:27:18

Wilson, I think yeah, I mean, it's just so cool that you're experienced experiencing entities from like, multiple angles. Now you're your Creator, you're a collector, you're a buyer,

Jamie: 2:27:31

you know, yeah, I'm doing I'm doing all the things. Yeah, nfts. And it's, it is cool too, because I felt like before NFT's in general, I was much more of somebody who would analyze other people's work, and then maybe try to make money off of that, you know, through investing or whatever. But like, now I'm, I'm doing the podcast here, I got my own NFT project, it's just, it's such a, a friendly, positive, some space where, where everybody can contribute in their own way. And I feel like I'm doing more of that now than I ever have before. Power to the person power to the person. So we got to get Paki on as a guest. So that

Roy: 2:28:15

would be great. Which is kind of very, that's awesome. He was I mean, is still I actually I, when I started my substack. So back in, I think the start of June, I DM him and basically said that he was part of the inspiration for me getting to NFT's but then also writing. And I sent him a link because I think he mentioned something about getting into apes or being interested in them. And yeah, I mean, at the time, I probably had like 800 Twitter followers or something. But you know, he replied to me, and it was really cool to see and he said he's gonna read it and yeah, I mean now it's it's absurd how just many subscribers I have myself stuck and whatnot. But yeah, power to the person.

Jamie: 2:29:00

I heard of the person. There was.

Roy: 2:29:03

Actually I don't need to get into that. That's his podcast long enough already. Um,

Jamie: 2:29:06

this is a very long podcast we need we need to wrap this up and head into the plug segment.

Roy: 2:29:13

All right, what would you like to plug?

Jamie: 2:29:15

I would like to turn that around on you and ask you first because I haven't thought about this yet. What would you like to plug?

Roy: 2:29:23

I'll go ahead and plug my Discord server. It is it's growing at a pretty nice pace. I'm enjoying seeing all the new members sort of coming together. It's a lot of a nice little community that's being put together. And it's really cool. I see lots of people every day saying how they're they're learning lots how they enjoy the friendly atmosphere and environment and people sharing information. And I started doing giveaways in there like people who have their own NFT project. See it as a good way to sort of see spread the word about their project, get some exposure. And so I if I can set up sort of a giveaway channel where people members of the discord can potentially win a free NFT. And someone can sort of advertise by telling people about their NFT, then I think it's sort of a win win win. I'm not just letting any project do that. Obviously I'm curating it. And picking

Jamie: 2:30:23

I love a discord giveaway and really don't like a Twitter giveaway. Yeah. Because it just it feels like you. The Twitter giveaways are sort of forced onto your timeline, where as discord giveaways, you can kind of just choose to go to the giveaways channel or not in your server.

Roy: 2:30:44

And all you do is click a button. Yeah. Whereas on Twitter, it's like, like retweet fuller. I mean, I've been guilty of running giveaways on Twitter as well. It's can be it's also a win win win, in a way. But anyway, yeah. Yeah, the discord channel, Discord server is growing, it's cool. And come check it out. I'll put the link in the show notes.

Jamie: 2:31:08

All right, in that in that time, I have thought of something a plug. I'm almost finished with a book right now that I've quite enjoyed, and I find it to be helpful for thinking about the NFT space. It's called the $12 million stuffed shark. It's by Don Thompson. The subtitle is the curious economics of contemporary art. And it's, it's been a great read, and it helps me think about why people pay for NFTs and what they're willing to pay and just the art market in general. It's been really illuminating and, and maybe check that out. I think reading in general, can I just plug? Yeah, I think reading is awesome. And people need to do more of it.

Roy: 2:31:55

Yeah, reading is awesome. I mean, I need to do more of it myself. I I did I had basically hadn't picked up a book or Kindles for like the first six months after getting to NFT's because of how Ingres Yeah, I had a

Jamie: 2:32:07

I had a great thing going reading at the beginning of the year. And then I kind of just got sidetracked where I would wake up first thing in the morning and and just read from my nonfiction book at the time. Yeah. But then once I got into the NFT space, it was just grabbed my phone, check. Chat. Yeah, check Twitter, check my email, see if anything longer sold. And I'm trying to get back to that morning reading session first.

Roy: 2:32:31

Yeah, I need to get back into reading a bit as well. I go back into it on the vacation that we went on just because that's what vacations are for. And all one of the things it's nice to be able to read and I read maybe 40 to 60% of the $12 million stuff shot. Oh, yeah,

Jamie: 2:32:50

I'm like 20 pages away. I'm really close to being done. Yeah.

Roy: 2:32:53

And it's fascinating. A lot of the content from there inspired my recent substack post on our blogs about branding. And

Jamie: 2:33:03

yeah, as I remembered the branding thing really sticking out to me at the beginning as well.

Roy: 2:33:07

Yeah. Yeah, so just a double plug for that book. It's very, it resonates well with the NFT market, I think.

Jamie: 2:33:17

Yeah, and Damien Hirst, the titular $12 million. Stuffed shark is a work by Damien Hirst, who's now rather relevant in the NFT space because of his project the currency

Roy: 2:33:28

Yeah, it's very cool to see.

Jamie: 2:33:30

This has been episode eight of Two Bored Apes. Thanks for listening.

Intro: 2:33:35

Thanks for listening. Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh