Episode 16 - Twitter Q & A

Jaime: 0:00

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice.

Roy: 0:11

On today's episode, we're trying something new. We have basically created a whole episode that is just Twitter q&a. On our previous episodes, we would have a segment for answering questions from listeners. However, we found that they were getting to be very lengthy segments an hour and a half. So we decided, You know what, we'll just create a new episode that is solely dedicated to, you know, answering some of the best questions we get asked, and, yeah, we hope you enjoy. And if you want to ask a question, then keep an eye out on my Twitter page at Zeneca_33. Usually the day that we're about to record, I'll send out a tweet asking for questions from the community. And we go through and pick some of our favorites and answer them. So hope you enjoy

Intro: 1:00

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Roy: 1:19

Twitter Q&A!

Jaime: 1:22

All right, Roy, this first questions aimed at you. I'm gonna read it. Are you ready?

Roy: 1:27

I am ready.

Jaime: 1:29

The question comes from Alex Degram. They said on your last podcast, you talked about questions you would ask project creators and an Ask me anything. Can you talk more about your plans or vision on using the funds you are raising with the 333 Club? Thanks. Excited to join

Roy: 1:44

Yeah, no, it's an excellent question. Thanks for asking. I'm on the website, there's sort of a section, I think it's a link called the money, which gives a rough breakdown of what I intend to do. But it also says that a large chunk of the money is just going to sit in eth. Because I have no current plans for it. I think it's worth I guess, mentioning and probably repeating, I don't know if actually, I've actually mentioned it on the podcast before. But this project is different to say your regular 10,000 generative profile picture project, which has a roadmap and a plan. Because it is the 333 Club specifically is in essence, a way for projects. And people in teams and founders who are launching a project to get access to I guess, my advice and consulting services in a way that is not bringing me on as a full time adviser and paying me a percentage of royalties, which is what most people do for advisory. You know, compensation deals in this space. So to one extent, it's like it is I'm getting paid in exchange for my services and my time. So I don't necessarily feel like there's a obligation or duty or whatever on me to provide a big roadmap and provide a thing that I like that I'm doing with the money to give back to that community. Yeah, so like just going with that same different shading factor. If a project has a roadmap, and they're planning things, then yes, you should know exactly where the money you're spending is going to go. I very clearly on my website, say I don't have a roadmap. And I basically lay out what I am thinking and planning and have rough ideas for what I want to do personally and then just kind of grow the thing into the hole ZenAcademy as all the 333club and kind of want to just take it by as I as I see it. I do have some plans and visions for the very long term, but they don't like relate to what I'm immediately going to do with the funds. But I'll talk about a little bit about that. I don't want to necessarily set expectations, to say that, you know, this is what I'm definitely going to do. But the general direction of things that I'm like leaning towards is I love the idea of having ZenAcademy as a whole. Become like this Metaverse school or like education place. So I want to buy like sand in... oh not sand, land in the metaverse is like the sand, sand and land box. Yeah, sand and land books decentraland somnium, space etc. And actually have someone build an academy like an actual place where we can go like the first Metaverse school like why is anyone building a school for the metaverse? I don't I'm not really familiar that they are why can't ZenAcademy be the first one and

Jaime: 4:42

interesting. Mackey is definitely trying to do some educational stuff. But it's sort of part of what they're trying to do rather than sort of a holistic overall approach.

Roy: 4:56

Yeah, yeah. And I I mean, yeah, that's probably his way to work towards that. But that's just one kind of thing. And then like, there would be the ZenAcademy, the 333 club would have a clubhouse, perhaps its own separate area. But I guess, yeah, you asked specifically about the 333 clubs. So my vision is for it to be a community, out of which a bunch of excellent products, tools, ideas, etc, are born and created. And, you know, we have people who are, who have joined already who have launched successful projects, where people are at various stages of launching a project from, you know, they're launching it in three days to, they have a plan for two months to the just have an idea on what to launch next year. And then we have people who aren't launching a project, they just want to be part of a small community, of learning and building together, just in a general sense. And I would just really love that in, like, I will do whatever I can to make these projects a success and to be the best versions of themselves. And I would love for in a year, six months, 12 months, 18 months time is weird, who knows how long it's gonna take, but for there to be this level of like, respect or validation. Like, if a project comes out of the 333 Club, then it can be considered to have, you know, bit have had good thought put into it, you know, be ethically run. And like all these things that I want note it just to be a successful, well thought out project with a good team. And like, yeah, it would be cool to have the little 333club community thought of as this almost as incubation hub of great ideas for the space. I don't know if that's gonna happen. I like obviously I don't like we've got a vision. And that is a vision. Yeah, we've got 250 members to join. Still, obviously, not every project is going to be success, it's very hard to launch a successful NFT project, maybe half will fail, a 50% strike rate is excellent in this space. Maybe we get more, maybe we get less. But even if we just get a handful of really great projects, that's also pretty cool. But yeah, I just want to do whatever I can to make whatever the people in the club are doing in this space, wheth er it's launching a project, whether it's investing on their own, whether it's networking, or you know, trying to form a gaming guild, or whatever it is. I just want to make them successful. And because we're all sort of connected now by this, then we will hopefully collectively be successful and be able to do things like the power of a really successful, well connected network group of 333, I think can achieve really cool things. Like we have a bunch of devs and stuff in there already. who have knowledge and access to launching a project really quick. And we have web design. Yeah, it's just a cool group already. And I'm really excited for the rest and also rambley

Jaime: 7:53

sounds sounds like a potentially fertile ground for for building. Yeah, we need rat right now as builders, right? We need to build something better than what Facebook is building.

Roy: 8:04

Yes. Yeah, who knows? Maybe maybe another Metaverse we born out of it seems extremely unlikely. But maybe some. Yeah, some section of the metaverse

Jaime: 8:14

some entity that is very relevant in it. Yeah. A school. Schools needed an academy

Roy: 8:20

an Academy. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's kind of I think, I think I answered that. Zombiebit says, what would be the biggest likely thing to stop an overall NFT slash Metaverse Bull Run? Specifically on blue chips like apes?

Jaime: 8:40

Hmm. What do we think? Well, I mean, something happened that stopped a bull run in NFT's and the metaverse right. And it was just kind of a rising, rising eth price with rising gas at the same time, over the last few months, was definitely something that did that. Right.

Roy: 9:00

Yep. I would say that we're still sort of, in an overall Bull Run, like this whole year is still kind of bullish. And

Jaime: 9:09

I mean, if you go from January 1, now prices have gone up a ton. No doubt about Yeah. But the the gains on a lot of things are just microscopic compared to what they weren't the peaks and some gains have turned into losses and so on. Yeah.

Roy: 9:24

I think on like a macro level, something like really unfavorable. Legislation, regulation is probably the biggest looming threat the the space faces.

Jaime: 9:33

Yeah. I mean, we just had a pretty big one in the US, you know, it's far enough down the road that we can sort of not worry about it too much right now. But certainly what was passed is something that nobody in this space thinks is a good idea and thinks is bearish for it if it were to actually be implemented, as written.

Roy: 9:51

What What was it?

Jaime: 9:53

I think we talked about this briefly earlier, but it was in the infrastructure bill in the US and it basically meant that anytime I say Do you know what KYC is? Yes. Know your customer. Basically, anytime I sold an NFT, for over $10,000, for the equivalent of over$10,000, I would need to do all of that stuff with the buyer, and possibly even give them a specific tax form as well. So it's just it's quite impractical. And they're basically trying to turn any person into what they would consider a broker. But then like, also banks are exempt from paying brokers or whatever. It's it's it's not good.

Roy: 10:33

No. Huh. Yeah. So I mean, something like that, like something really? Yeah, I think the only thing that basically stops a long term Bull Run is some catastrophic regulation, legislate legislation, but even then, I think, in the very long run, we will get around and legislation will change and NFT's will survive, but um,

Jaime: 10:57

what would happen to like the, the eth NFT marketplace in let's call it 18 months or something, if you know, eth 2.0, either isn't out or was very not smooth, and somebody likes Solana, or whomever really is starting to just become more and more established as a really legitimate competitor to it, where, you know, the money is and the people are and the protocols are, what do you think that does to what we consider to be the most valuable NFT is on the most valuable? You know, non Bitcoin blockchain?

Roy: 11:38

I don't think it is, as I don't think it's that terrible. I think that like, we'll have the ability to like sort of bridge NFT's from one chain to another. So rarely happens,

Jaime: 11:49

right? Like, yeah, it does happen for Damien Hirst, for instance. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy: 11:54

So it'll be sort of, I think, a case of if the theorem network is just massively struggling, no longer a good place. It'll just be like these mass migration, people will just take the entities over to salona. And they'll just bought a community. We'll just be on Solana and it will be like, Alright, so we started at on the Eos blockchain, that the record is still there. The provenance is still there. It's not like the community is going anywhere. We still have our NFT's it now they're just on Solana.

Jaime: 12:20

I buy it. Okay, that the answer? Is that right? Yeah. Good vibes. JJ. I'm a little too far from the mic here. Good vibes. JJ says thoughts on how NFT's could change the music industry? And will you to try to get in early on these. And then in parentheses, they say any favorite artists?

Roy: 12:40

Let's interesting. Because like, just before we started recording, we both bought some of the apron production. amenities. Yeah. And they're sort of trying to do something to change the music industry.

Jaime: 12:51

I don't. Basically what I know about the music industry is all from previously doing, like investment analysis on Spotify. So I have sort of a good idea for what splits the artists and the labels and then the, like aggregators get from it. And it seems like at this point in time, the, the labels are just getting a ton of the money in the music industry without doing their fair share for it. And I think that in some type of way, people will be able to use and FTS to cut out their piece of the pie. And share that more evenly amongst the people who are actually creating the value in music, which is mostly the artists.

Roy: 13:42

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I don't know exactly. Logistically how it's gonna end up working. But I think that the tech is there, and it's so good, and will be able to be integrated with music and artists, musicians that it will, it will change the entire music industry in time. Yeah.

Jaime: 14:05

I don't know that anybody can really tell you what it will look like. Because there's just so many different. There's, that's what I love about all of this is that there's just you can, you can build things kind of however you want. And you can try lots of different business models, because it's all Legos. It's all connectable, and, and able to be used in different little chunks and stuff. So I don't see how the industry doesn't get disrupted. I think the way sort of it was trying to get disrupted previously was places like Spotify, or Apple or Google would try and aggregate so much of the demand that they could just kind of slowly squeeze out the labels, but the labels are a little bit too powerful right now to be able to do that quickly, because they can just pull the rights for all their music, which is again, like each one represents almost 1/3 of all the music that people in the world can About so that that's tough. They kind of have a mutually assured destruction thing there. But anyway, it's the way it's working there is going very slowly. And this, this technology, I think, is going to allow big, big leaps in in random ways. And it's unclear exactly how it'll be structured and when they'll start happening, but and some could argue it is already happening with a couple small instances of individuals doing it. But on a much bigger scale, it's coming.

Roy: 15:33

Yeah. I've been just hearing rumblings about music entities more over the last month or two. And sort of in a similar way to, I started hearing rumblings about photography and FTEs, four or five months ago. And, yeah, I mean, and if these will be disruptive to both industries, and they will gain more adoption, I think that it will probably just take a bit more time for these ecosystems to be fleshed out. And like, we're used to everything happening on hyperspeed. In this space in the, if we're used to profile picture, NFT's and communities and JPEGs and collectibles. And that being the NFT experience, we're not used to like, quote, unquote, these real world cases when like, you try and integrate existing musicians and systems and bring them into our world, I guess, because by and large, the older music most people care about is created by people who aren't crypto and NFC native. So the need to be a massive, you know, it'll have to be mainstream, it'll have to be like, easy for them and their fans to listen, buy, sell, participate, you know, all of that will have to just get better. And I think that that will happen when the entire ecosystem is at a place where it's easier for a new person to get on boarded than it is now or is likely to be in anytime in the next several months, potentially a year or two.

Jaime: 17:04

Mm hmm. You know, I was I was just thinking about the different spheres of culture that the Bored Ape Yatch Club has, has gotten into, and the amount of big names in the music industry and maybe even more specifically in like the DJing. Part of it is really impressive. And I, I think that that will help to convince other people about the value of NFTs, and it shows that we have a lot of people who know the music industry, our parts, big influential parts of the industry, who also get the value of NFT's and decentralization and these communities and, and we'll definitely be able to come up with interesting ways to utilize it to make things better for the people that are actually providing value.

Roy: 17:56

Yeah, I think that's all accurate and exciting. All right. deadpan stuff is says, Do you think NFT's have become too elitist? Now, I'm struggling to see how someone in a developing country who discovers NFT's tomorrow can get involved with the blue chip projects? It's a I mean, it's a good question.

Jaime: 18:22

I would say the the blue chip projects are definitely excuse me going to continue to stay out of reach for people who don't have access to a lot of expendable income. That's, that's pretty clear. But if they go to other blockchains, and they, you can just create yourself, and it's lowering the barriers to entry in that way. And, you know, there's, there's a bunch of projects out now, and that will be out in the future that are going to be blue chips that are not yet. And those are the ones that people with access to a lot less can still get into. And that's how I would say most of the people that are in today's blue chips got into them. It's not that everybody bought at the top, you know, you can look at ownership numbers and, and stuff like that. And a lot, a lot of it in all of these blue chip projects is people that were there from the beginning when they weren't chips, but when they were speculative, and when they were cheap.

Roy: 19:24

Yeah, I mean, I think just to sort of add on to that it's it's not just someone in a developing country who can't who discovers in the future aren't involved in a blue chip project. 99 point something percent of people just can't either afford or justify spending $200,000 on a Bored Ape, it's just it is already out of reach for the majority. And so like you said, the way that people will get invested in blue chip projects most likely is by buying them at mint at low prices and having, you know become blue chips over time similar to the Bored Apes, similar to the crypto punks creating your very own, creating your very own. I do think it is at least eith NFT's are elitist in the sense that the gas costs and just the cost to enter and play and dabble is so prohibitive that it really does eliminate a vast majority of humans on Earth from you need$1,000 I would say bare minimum to consider dabbling in NFT's on eth main net. And that's where things like Solana and Tezos really start to shine, I think. And that's where even risk reward

Jaime: 20:33

of trying to get into the potential blue chips on f is it's just so difficult with how much the gas is taxing you on every interaction.

Roy: 20:42

Yeah, yeah. But like you can you can put $50 $100 onto Solana or Tezos and buy NFT's for like a few dollars. Maybe even cheaper that we can get free NFT's, like on those trains as well. So you can definitely, as well. So, yeah, exactly. If you have if you have an internet shows, I've

Jaime: 21:06

got a lot of free polygon. And yes, too many without even trying.

Roy: 21:11

If you have an internet connection and like a device to let you get on there, you presumably have some amount of means at your disposal. Whether it's a few dollars, disposable income, or just the, you know, basically the free amount to set up a wallet and yeah, whatever it is a little bit. But something you mentioned before is that you can create an NFT you can create art, you can create something content there, you know, you can play in a play their own game like x infinity, there are a lot of people in the Philippines now who have been earning decent amounts of money. I know that there's some

Jaime: 21:46

I'm a spectrum of what they make in regular jobs. They're definitely decent.

Roy: 21:50

They are but I've been reading and hearing some stuff now about how some of them are now making less than like the average income of the country just because rates are diminishing for scholars or whatever the ecosystem isn't as healthy as it was several months ago when things were thriving. And we can get into a whole thing about the XE ecosystem, which neither of us are experts on. So we shouldn't really

Jaime: 22:11

comment on and it's awesome, fairly volatile based on SLP potions. Yeah.

Roy: 22:17

But I'll give you an example. I've been over the last couple of weeks trying to find artists to commissioned work from for Zen Academy, and like stuff that we want to do there. And maybe like 40% of the time, I'll be on foundation Foundation, find an artist really love it. And it'll be an artist from Thailand, like specifically Thailand, not not Southeast Asia not like so there's a thriving a lot

Jaime: 22:42

of people from Thailand about all these Thai artists, Thai artists, Thai artists. Yeah.

Roy: 22:47

And I mean, it's awesome. It's, it's, you know, they're arguably a developing country that the average income is lower than the US and Germany and most, yeah, where we have lived and live. And they are able, because they have found NFT's they have this talent, this creative ability to create art that others find appealing, I at least find it appealing. I found them via twitter or just randomly browsing foundation. So you know, and they're likely to make decent money, at least from some sales, if they can. There are ways to get into the ecosystem, starting with very little. It doesn't, it isn't like, you don't need to get a blue chip NFT just anytime soon to be considered into NFT's.

Jaime: 23:37

Right? Yeah, that's one of the other things too is like, the way it may be feels prohibitive to get into them. But the the, the whole point, in some ways of all this decentralization is that like, no blue chip project is is a gatekeeper, you can just go around it, you can do other things with or without any given project, like the the value creation, and the value capture can just happen anywhere and without anybody preventing it. So you know, if you really want to get into the blue chip projects, that's a different story. But it's not there by no means a necessity to enjoy your time or create value or accrue value, or any of those sorts of things in in the space. They're just those are the ones that have done it already. But it that's fine if you don't have them.

Roy: 24:28

Mm hmm. And yeah, I

Jaime: 24:30

mean, aspire towards exactly are that into them. But they're, they're not the be all and end all and there will be a lot more.

Roy: 24:39

Yeah, in essence, a lot of them are now just like luxury brands and luxury goods and the status symbols. And so sort of in a similar way to if you want to take it real life, parallel, buying an expensive car, having an expensive watch. These are not things that you need to do. You can buy a car to get you from A to B you can buy a watch that Till the time for $10. And you can get an

Jaime: 25:03

audience here's to it, right? Like, yeah, if you wanted to compare it to cars or whatever, like, in terms of, of how big of a deal it is, or watches or whatever, like, there's stuff that's blue chip or blue chip adjacent that, you know, you can get into for $500. And there's ones that you can get into if you want to spend$10 million. And there's everything in between, you know, you can get a, you can get a cheap artbox factory project or you can get an alien punk, and anything in between. And you're still getting into something that's legitimate and has status. If that's what you're after.

Roy: 25:41

You think we answered that.

Jaime: 25:44

Remington Keller says How did you and Jamie meet? What was your favorite NFT minting experience? What's your biggest gain in NFT's and your biggest loss?

Roy: 25:54

Well, how are we met? We met via an online poker forum called bet the pot. And

Jaime: 26:02

now we've done this before you are not on UPS before it.

Roy: 26:05

I was not. Okay. I was another four.

Jaime: 26:07

So I'm a little bit older than you.

Roy: 26:09

You are? Uh, yeah, we were both sort of playing online poker, you know, different sides of the world found this online poker forum that we posted on became friends eventually met up in a Jamie's hometown providence. Yes. With with another one on picking you and Andy up. Yeah, from Boston Airport. I think we had like a Seinfeld calm moment as well, where we're like, Where's the car? And that was funny. Um, yeah. And I guess we've just sort of been friends ever since.

Jaime: 26:41

What year? Would that have been? 2006 or something? Sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.

Roy: 26:46

Maybe 2007. I think six

Jaime: 26:50

should be eight was here. I went to the World Series. That's all I know. Yeah. My frame of reference for years in the poker is all revolves around that. And I have to work from that.

Roy: 27:00

Yeah, same pretty much. And then like 2010 to 2009 2015 is like a blur. It's just when did what happened? What order? It's right. You remember?

Jaime: 27:14

Yeah, yeah. But that's how we met.

Roy: 27:18

That's how we met. What was your favorite mint? NFT minting experience.

Jaime: 27:24

I really like those dj de partie de gens or whatever what they call the nifty League. These NS I'm sorry. Yeah, that was actually something else.

Roy: 27:31

That is perfect. Yeah,

Jaime: 27:32

the nifty league de gens was the most recent one. That was a lot of fun that an eponym Yeah, I'm for recent ones. Were really fun. Oh, you know what else I actually did recently? I just made my bulletin arts. That was also fun. Oh, yeah. That's a fun one. That was there was almost like two choice. Too much choice, though. I was like, I was a little bit overwhelmed.

Roy: 27:50

Yeah, yeah. I actually last night before going to bed. I was like, I need to Mint for my for more of my bulletin boards. I opened it up. And I like after 15 minutes. I was like, I couldn't get even. Yeah, there's so many geographies crazy. So my new plan is to get Rachel to pick the ones that she likes. Because yeah, she she would enjoy the process. I think it is

Jaime: 28:11

a fun one, for sure. is a fun one. Yeah, where you get to interact with it, though. Exactly. Always fun to me.

Roy: 28:18

Yeah, I basically agree with with all of those bitmap split knots, eponym nifty legions, all very fun. minting experiences.

Jaime: 28:28

You know what else was fun? That's not quite the same. But back in the day when art blocks was basically first becoming crazily popular. And you had sort of these long running playground or factory projects that had just meant and very slowly, and then it just sort of became clear in Block Talk. Yeah, that that one of them was going to get minted out within the next 10 hours or whatever. And everybody would kind of slowly rush to at least one before it. So that I always that was just a fun community thing that I remember doing a few times and enjoying a lot

Roy: 29:02

chatting in the live mins chat showing

Jaime: 29:05

off which one you had. Yeah, that's a nice one. Yeah.

Roy: 29:08

I mean, maybe it sounds like we could be back at those days. Soon. If we get, I guess momentum where people do start wanting to miss out other projects, which is exciting. Yeah, I would sort of agree with all of that. I had some fun meeting experiences. But they were because of just the excitement around minting like I remember. Yeah, the first dead horses I minted the actual, like the actual It was awful. The website terrible. Yeah, yeah. But when when you go on with so

Jaime: 29:44

definitely, yeah. That was fun. And it was something that like we were doing together, you know, yeah. Everyone in the group chat was basically trying to get in on it. It was just exciting. Oh, did did he get one? I got one. I didn't get any of these. I'm trying to get one of this type. Yeah, no. Yeah. And like we were, we would always give each other tips because it was so fucking buggy. We're like, Yeah, what crazy Voodoo we were doing that we thought maybe was helping us actually get success. Refresh

Roy: 30:13

the page. Quickly open the filters and press. Yeah, pick some colors. It was fun. Yeah, I also don't quite miss it.

Jaime: 30:25

They and the last one got like cancelled and then they just gave like everybody one free one. And then we haven't heard anything since but there's still a bunch of Genesis horses that haven't been Yeah, I just hit bad things about that these days only I only hear bad stuff to basically. And every like three weeks. I'm like, oh boy, I bet I bet you the prices or maybe good deals if they're gonna turn things around now and then, you know, I don't pull the trigger. But yeah, it seems like if they do turn around truly Oh, yeah. The best horses seem theoretically quite cheap now. Although people just hate everything. The breeding algorithms no good. They keep working on the wrong stuff. Their communication is terrible, blah, blah, blah. It's so buggy, but

Roy: 31:02

it is it's a shame.

Jaime: 31:05

Alright, the next part of the question, what's your biggest gain in eth NFTs and your biggest loss? Hmm. As a difference between realized gains and losses versus non unrealized I guess for realized gains. Mine would probably be the summer fragments that I sold for 32 eth. That's got to be my biggest gain. That's a big sale. Yeah, and biggest loss. I haven't really had any big losses that I've actually realized. I spent a good amount of money on the Divine Order of the Zodiac, secondary market early on, getting some of the like, doubles or whatever. But those are all worth very, very little right now. And also, I I invested a lot in the Royal Society of Players whose floor prices have fallen out a lot. I would say those two are probably amongst my biggest unrealized losses. Also, we went, we went in together on it on an experiment hegman mentioned right near the end of the bull run that we're very underwater on. Yeah, but that was also unrealized.

Roy: 32:10

Yeah. My biggest gain I think, again, realized gain is a mutant Godan Sita. So it's like this generative art project that dropped, which I think I bought three of the mint price was point four. And I sold one of like, 18, something eth. So that was, and that was like, a month and a bit ago, I think or two months ago, sort of like after the crazy Bull Run, but it like this mini Bull Run happened again. And they went up. So that was nice.

Jaime: 32:42

He also did great on World of women, right? You've minted a bunch of them.

Roy: 32:46

I minted 80. And I was very blessed. So many. I know. It was. Wow,

Jaime: 32:51

I bet you have way less than 80. Now though, yeah. No, I

Roy: 32:54

mean, I still have like 10, which is I mean, the floors. Yeah, it's it is very great. I was trying to tell you to mint them. But you know, I didn't tell you to mint a lot of things. Yeah.

Jaime: 33:05

What haven't you told me?

Roy: 33:11

The biggest loss. That's an interesting one. The one that does come to mind is the pigments. Oh, maybe an unrealized one is my archetype. I don't know what the floor is for that at the moment. I haven't checked in a while. 16 I

Jaime: 33:21

think, yeah, I bought it looking at the money. Shy. Yeah, that that one and unit grades and sub scapes. Really. The floors were so high for a hot second there. And I'm really, I'm down a lot.

Roy: 33:35

I haven't like, by and large, I don't buy expensive NFT's I think, like the substance or the archetype was by far my biggest splurge at 30 eth. And it was like, right at the peak of the bull market. So I was selling a bunch of other stuff at high prices. So I was feeling pretty good about it. Yeah, it was largely a shifting of assets like I sold. I don't know what to call a dream a from NT, and a couple other things. And then I had 38 I was like, Alright, now I can combine this. Yeah, like so my second largest purchase. I don't even know. Aside from the pigments that we went together. It might be like six eat those things I bought. And I don't know where it is now. But yeah.

Jaime: 34:21

And then for unrealized ones, for me, it will be the ape and I guess you've your fidenza

Roy: 34:26

Yeah, it's gonna be the fidenza point. 172 100 something 200 something? Nothing on. Because it's hard to value. It's a non flow one, but it's not right. Crazy rare. It's kind of a holy crap. The flows 122 and fidenza. Is that shot back up?

Jaime: 34:44

It was yeah, I've been seeing a lot of creative projects actually coming back up a little bit lately.

Roy: 34:48

Yeah. It dropped to like 75 at one point.

Jaime: 34:53

Yeah. But also AF is coming back to you know, it was it was like 5000 for a second and now it's 4000 You know, basically,

Roy: 35:02

um, yeah, that's, that's probably it for that question. Oh, next the next

Jaime: 35:11

question. Yeah.

Roy: 35:12

The tourist says, Have you ever had episodes where you fallen out with each other? And if you had, how did you make your friendship strong again? Hard to imagine that when listening to you both, but I guess no friendship is perfect. So I'm curious.

Jaime: 35:25

That's funny. Yeah, you said the thing about 2009 to 2015 being a haze. I think that was a little while where we were just kind of busy doing our own thing and didn't talk that much. It you know, what else is weird is like the way that chat apps kind of migrate through popularity and stuff. And it's like, if if the one that you stay in touch with somebody on just stops being something that other people are using, it just it becomes easier and easier to let that relationship kind of slink back sink back. I remember that specifically with some people on a lawn semester. But basically, since I've been on Viber, we we've been thick as thieves. But I don't, we never really got mad at each other and avoided each other.

Roy: 36:11

But the closest I can even remember is I was traveling with two poker friends, Mark and Harris in. I think we're in Napa Valley. And we were wanting to go to the French Laundry, this crazy expensive restaurant. And I was trying to find out if you wanted to come or not. And you will just like not. I guess you weren't, you were in two minds, because it was it was going to be an expensive meal and his travel there. And like we needed to know, for the reservation, because you need to give them like 24 or 48 hours notice and they're trying to ask you and then, you know, you ended up not coming. And it was just like a last minute thing. And like for like half a day. It was like, oh, that's annoying, but I don't remember that.

Jaime: 36:56

And I also remember specifically that just being so in my head about how I couldn't afford to take time off to spend money to do something so frivolous when I needed to be trying harder at poker still. Yeah, and I've done things like that, like three times. And it's like, I should have just fucking gone. I mean, although in hindsight, it's yeah, in hindsight, it feels like it now that I've I've escaped the trap of, you know, month to month needing to have enough money to pull out of your bankroll to pay for stuff.

Roy: 37:26

Yeah. But yeah, I think it's been a strong friendship.

Jaime: 37:31

Yep. eemaan ft says, any effect that Thanksgiving will have on the NFT market, dinner table conversations, et cetera, et cetera. And I think we touched on this a little bit. In the in the earlier podcast that we did this week, just alluded to this question, because it was sort of related. But I do think there's something to it.

Roy: 37:52

Yeah, I mean, when I've never been to the Thanksgiving meal, so it's, I guess the family, friends?

Jaime: 38:00

Yeah. Big a big holiday gathering of family and friends.

Roy: 38:04

Yeah, I mean, I can see it having some sort of effect,

Jaime: 38:09

the people that are into it only want to talk about Yeah. And it's becoming big enough, outside of those people that the some percentage of the other people are at least curious. Even if they have a negative slant. They're curious. And so there's going to be a lot of conversations about them, for sure. Over giving,

Roy: 38:28

I have two messages on Facebook, from people that have messaged me last couple of days, just by the people I haven't spoken to in a while asking about NFT's because they've heard about it they're interested in I guess they heard that I was involved in the space and if more people are hearing about it, and wanting to talk about it, and then you combine as you said, the people who were in the space or anything wanting to talk about it, right? Yeah. Now you you have a different Thanksgiving tactic. Oh, do we know it? We don't want

Jaime: 38:58

to talk about it. Oh, ft five thing? Yeah. Anyway, it doesn't know.

Roy: 39:02

Yeah. So Jamie was His strategy was to make these NFT five bids. That expired when people were theoretically full of Turkey. And

Jaime: 39:13

I was gonna I was gonna offer NFT five loans that expired on Thanksgiving basically. And the idea was that people would be so busy with their family and so full from the food that they would forget to pay back on Thanksgiving. So I went on last night which was one day before I thought no harm in me doing it the night before then I'll wake up in the morning and over the course of the day, hopefully some people will accept them and then maybe it'll work out or not. But but then you know, I also because I thought it was a clever idea. I was like I'm gonna offer slightly better terms than I normally and then you know, I made them at basically from like eight to 11pm Last night I was just cranking them out. And but then if somebody did one before it was even Thursday yet and And another one happened at like five in the morning. So they will also won't be at their Thanksgiving gathering by the time it's due. And the other thing is in order for me to foreclose on it, I also have to not be busy socializing and full of Turkey. So it's it's not even a good plan to begin with.

Roy: 40:16

I didn't realize that how that was how it worked out. It was like an automatic foreclosure thing.

Jaime: 40:20

No. So basically, they still have the ability to pay until you foreclose on interesting. Yeah, interesting. And it doesn't accrue more interest because it's just like a set in stone. Yeah, borrow X and repay why not, you know, x times of thing.

Roy: 40:35

And you pay gas when you foreclose, I presume? Right. Right. Interesting. Very interesting. All right. Dumpster dog says how to build value during, in the bear. Um,

Jaime: 40:52

I think it's the same way as during the bull, really, it's just it the bear market makes you feel like it's not as valuable of a use of your time. Yeah, and, and so it scares a lot of people off. So the way to do it, is to kind of just keep doing it. And, you know, the reason that that simple advice is, the reality of it is that the bear just scares a lot of people away from trying to do that. It doesn't seem worth it to a lot of people during the bears. That's sort of what Axi infinity came out of, from what I understand is the terrible crypto winter, they just kept they just kept building when other people didn't want to anymore.

Roy: 41:28

Yeah, find the projects that are still building still hanging around there every day. And you know, get involved with them, invest in them or, you know, build your own project or help out in a project whether it's you know, there's a lot there are a lot of ways to get involved in the building side of things without actually like coding or being an artist you can you can help in their discord. Perhaps you just offer to help and build a

Jaime: 41:53

network people can also learn these skills too, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Invest in yourself that you can not be a solidity programmer, but then 12 months from now be a solidity programmer if if you want to, that's yeah, that's definitely doable thing

Roy: 42:08

is, yeah. Excellent. free tutorials and videos on YouTube and places you can go to learn and yeah, I guess we answered that.

Jaime: 42:17

Yeah. This person's screen name is just specifically that's,

Roy: 42:21

I feel like, oh, hang on. is an extension of the question how to build value during the best, specifically, long term outlooks that are sustainable for teams and not overwhelming to hold. Oh, and we've lost Jamie. Well, this is this is great. I'm going to pause. Alright, we're back off to that temporary pause Jamie left. And he's back. He the the question. We thought it was from someone called specifically, but it was an extension of the previous question how to build value during the bear, typically, long term outlooks that is sustainable for teams, and not overwhelming to holders in demanding their time and attention with artificial hype. What does a balanced approach look like? Is it still fun? You kind of alluded to that with it not being as fun as a bit as a bull market, which I think is kind of accurate. It does lose the hype and excitement and just the firmness of number going up a lot.

Jaime: 43:17

Yeah, I think it's it's close to as fun for the people that are still doing it, maybe, but it seems less worth it to so many people that that not as many people are just gonna try. But I think the people that continue to try are the ones that are really going to provide the most value, and are doing it for the best reasons rather than just sort of cynical, money grabbing reasons.

Roy: 43:40

Yeah. I would agree with that. I like

Jaime: 43:44

the projects where the team is doing stuff, but they also have the project structured in such a way that the community can do stuff. And it's not all one or the other, you know, like some of this stuff like toads or whatever, where there's ostensibly no team and it's like all on you feels a little bit too, like optimistic that you can count on other people to provide the value. Whereas something where it's all the team seems like you're not getting into the decentralized values that all this sort of is sort of built upon. So I feel like to me, I like that happy medium.

Roy: 44:26

Yeah, no, me too. I think the community wants to be engaged and involved, but it's nice to have a little bit of whether it's guidance or vision or just Yeah, connection with the team that brings everyone together.

Jaime: 44:40

People people that can focus on it full time with a war chest from from the man. Yes.

Roy: 44:45

Yeah. It's, that's fun to see.

Jaime: 44:49

All right. That's funny that we accidentally tried to turn that into two different ones. Yeah. It's specifically did seem like a weird screen name. Yeah. Anyway, the next question is from Buddha would have says thoughts on bots being used to mint out the last two artbox curated drops, both could later be had under mint. But in a future bull market, they will be artificially inflating the floor from the start and keeping some of us borderline people without buckets of disadvantaged. It sounds to me like Buddha has not been around our blocks for a long time. Right? Yeah. Because I think that thing has been happening for a lot longer than just the last two pure data drops. It's it's a very high drop. Yeah, yeah. It's a very hyped, drop. And all of those are getting bought at at this point, you can just assume that about any hype drop of any project on the Ethereum network, is that people will be using code to try and take advantage of it.

Roy: 45:44

Yeah, it's and it's going to happen more and more. And the advantage will go to those who have the technological edge. And all the the eth edge as well.

Jaime: 45:57

Both will just by nature be part of it, except for in like, basically, drops that use a lot of centralization to try and do know your customer type stuff and all that. But all that stuff is still, for the most part stuff that can be got around, it's just it comes a different way of gaming the system.

Roy: 46:19

Yeah. I honestly wasn't aware that the last two up look secure two drops, got bothered, I'm not shocked that it did, because of the nature of the Dutch auction that when it reaches a certain price, and it becomes clear, that's going to sell out.

Jaime: 46:35

Yeah, and people can just see the pending transactions better than less sophisticated people and see what they put in for gas and all that stuff. Like that's it, that's just the nature of the game, honestly, is when you have a publicly available amount of information. And in a programmable network that anybody can interact with, some people are going to have access to more information, and are going to be better at using the tools to interact with that network. That's just that's that that's the game.

Roy: 47:03

Yeah. And it's also like a the saying that they will be like artificially inflating the flow price. It it really does depend on the state of the market, like both of

Jaime: 47:15

the same boat, both could be later had under mint, but in a feat, like in a bull market, or they artificially inflating the floor or is it just the bull market is making the floor high? Yeah. Because they're not making it artificially low. Now, it's just the market is what it is. Yeah. And there's there'll be, you know, more, more of the pieces in the butters hands if they're bonding is successful, but the the demand of the market at large is going to determine the price of that supply.

Roy: 47:43

Yeah, and it's like, it's not like it's a risk free thing for the people controlling the bots, either. If, let's say they mentioned 300, do

Jaime: 47:50

you remember the I think it was the fuck crystal one, or somebody spent, like 13 Gas transaction, but accidentally put in zero for the number of tokens, or whatever?

Roy: 48:00

Yeah, that was crazy. They lost so much money in.

Jaime: 48:04

So that's an example where it backfired for the Yeah.

Roy: 48:07

But even using the most recent, curated, drop assamica, it sold out to eat the Dutch auction, and it's now point five equals 1.75,

Jaime: 48:14

by the way, you said to earlier, but I was looking at the pieces and on our packs, I think it was saying 1.75

Roy: 48:20

Okay, well, maybe it's like, either way, it is now point five, four eth. So if they had minted a ton at 1.75, I guess that's a huge loss. And it's like, again, it's the market deciding the value of it if you don't think it's valuable at 1.75 eth. You don't have to mint at 1.75 eth. Yeah, yeah. And then and then the market will do its thing and either it will go up in value. Or it will not.

Jaime: 48:53

Yeah, right. And that's the thing about, like, so much of this stuff, too, is like, it's all so you know, it's, it's, it's for fun, and for culture and stuff like that, like you nobody needs any of these NFT's they're, they're all things that we want or choose to want. So if somebody is controlling a lot of the supply and then trying to sort of artificially manipulate the price, you can just not, we can all just not buy from that person. And then they will be stuck holding NFT's that nobody wants, or they can bring the price down to something that the rest of us think is reasonable. It's like it's we have plenty of power in a decentralized world that you don't necessarily have to worry about something like that. I think

Roy: 49:36

it actually happened with sculptors or sculptures where a bot minted 300 at of the five or six eth and yes, the floor did spike to like eight or nine shortly after but it very quickly tanked. And it was sitting between two and three eth for a long time. Just because I generally do think a genuinely do think a lot of the the uploads community was like, I'm just not going to buy from this but I'm not paying that. Premium and you know, they can sit on the pieces they can, if they want to hold them forever more power to them. If they want to stop selling them at a loss, then then maybe I'll be buying them.

Jaime: 50:11

Yeah, there's and there's always going to be another mint around the corner and previous NFT's that you can look at to you just you don't need to pay up to somebody that, you know, interacted wisely with a smart contract to get a huge percentage of the supply. And, you know, if if it is something that you feel like is so awesome, the price is going to go up, or that you love so much. You just want to be an owner of then, you know, that person tried harder on acquiring something that you perceive to be very valuable. And you kind of tip your cap to them, and pay excuse me pay if you can and don't pay if you can't, but it's just it's there. They're all things that no, nobody needs. So it's they're not taking food out of your mouth.

Roy: 50:59

The next question is fun. That dot eth says if you had all the liquidity you needed, what project or specific piece from Project, would you buy and hold forever? I mean, there's a few things like, depending on how I look at it, if it was something that I just wanted to hang on my wall, it would probably be like a really nice fidenza I don't actually have one in mind. I really like the micro ones. We'd like the bluish backgrounds, the dark, bluish backgrounds. They look really cool to me. Yeah,

Jaime: 51:33

facie looking. Yes, like stars. Those are those are spectacular.

Roy: 51:36

Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, in unlimited liquidity, getting an alien Punk would just be awesome and amazing to have. But yeah, like, those are the first two things. And of course, a one on 1x copy. I'm a big fan of his stuff. Those would be some things that would want.

Jaime: 51:58

For me, I think the first thing that comes to mind is singularity number 472. It's it's friggin amazing. And I quite liked that collection. But that one sticks out as being really one of the most special of all our locksmiths to me. It right now it's listed at 3000 ether. So you do need pretty close to an unlimited amount of money to get it that's almost$12 million. And who knows if they'll ever lower the price on that. But that to me is like a grail of all Grails

Roy: 52:34

Which number did you say it was?

Jaime: 52:35

472

Roy: 52:38

I've definitely looked at this one before because you've mentioned it before. Yeah, that is a great, great piece of art.

Jaime: 52:44

I mean any you can just blow that up huge. I would love that. Yeah, there's there is also a, a spiral fidenza that I particularly like more than others. But none of them as specifically stand out to me as that singularity. There's also an ape that's noise for with a toga and the heart sunglasses that I really love. That that would sort of be for a profile picture. My pinnacle.

Roy: 53:14

Yeah. Well, your answers are a lot more specific than mine. But that's cool. Yeah, I guess I don't really have a specific wish list like like that. Oh, like a one on one ghost would be cool as well.

Jaime: 53:26

Yeah, yeah, some of those look pretty friggin cool. Yeah. mafi dot F says what is the main factors in people changing their focus slash investment from NFT art to NFT utility? And do you think we will see art blocks curated excluded, they say turned bullish again?

Roy: 53:48

Let's answer the last part of that because we're already talking about up looks a bit. That's interesting, that curated is excluded because yes, I I'm very bullish about books curated. I think it's it's hot. I mean, I'm bullish on Apple books as a platform. And I think certain projects from playground and factory will perform well long term, but I'm not convinced that any random factory piece or playground piece will significantly appreciate in value over the several year timeframe. Kind of like supply and demand. They are releasing a lot of factory projects. And it's great for collectors. It's less great for investors slash speculators. But you know, that being said, it's still a historical thing like there will still only ever have been, you know, this many art blocks collections from factory playground in the first year of up blocks, the earlier ones you know, one of the first few flag factory pieces is historical value. They have low collection sizes. The artists may go on to do a curated drop the may go on to do other things. And that early work may become extremely valuable, but just sort of throwing a dart at an OP looks factory dot board and saying, you know, is it just going to be bullish the whole op looks factory, similar to how we saw in like August, right? Literally everything means it out and everything factory included was going up 20 3040 50% a day? I'm not sure we'll see that level of mania again.

Jaime: 55:24

No, I would definitely bet against seeing that. I think I largely agree with what you're saying. But I would also just kind of lean a little bit more into the art side of it. And away from the historical side of it to say that there are playground and factory projects now that I think the community will come to appreciate a lot more in the future, and subsequently, the price will react to that. And I think there are future playground. In fact, we have projects that are not out yet that the community will love and value highly and the prices will go up a lot. But like you're saying, I don't think you can just go buy any art blocks piece at any for price and just be very confident that it's going to go up in value, I think there will be probably a better level of value retention on average there then just other random Etherium and fts. But that is not necessarily saying much. But but definitely the best stuff that comes out of it, I think will still be valued highly.

Roy: 56:32

Yeah, I think I would agree with with that. Last episode, we were just sort of sitting here scrolling through assamica on the Apple website, and I'm now sitting here scrolling through some of the factory projects. And it's just, I'm really loving the website now. And just the this way of viewing the art is really, really

Jaime: 56:53

Yeah. i It's kind of weird to me that it took me so long to appreciate it. But yeah, if you listen to the last episode, where we just did the Ape, and our blocks, and then our stuff section and and cut out this Twitter q&a to do separately, you heard us talk a lot about how much we liked the new website format for browsing through an individual collection. It's really quite great for that.

Roy: 57:17

Yeah, definitely. And so that the first part of the question was, What is the main factors in people changing their focus slash investments from NFT art to NFT Utility? I'm not entirely sure what they're asking here. I like I guess, if, if you've currently been investing in art, NFT's and you want to shift to NFT, like utility NFT's what should you be looking for? I guess.

Jaime: 57:47

I'm also not sure if they're asking sort of like, when did we as an NFT, community start talking about where's the utility? Where's the roadmap? Whereas at the beginning, it was more about hey, we made some art as an NFT. Here it is, you can just own it.

Roy: 58:02

Yeah, I Yeah. Well, to answer that latter one, I feel like a few months ago, kind of maybe around the same time as scrambled was during this whole blocks of odd thing and providing utility to tourists holders. Although even a little before that ghosts had been doing a lot of that, where he was providing utility to his holders. And it just sort of as time has gone on, over the last few months culminated in buyers, almost expecting utility with a lot of their purchases, which I think is not necessarily the point of a lot of art. But I'm

Jaime: 58:37

almost any of it right? Well, yeah. Mark has not really been utility.

Roy: 58:43

No, but it is. Yeah, it is cool.

Jaime: 58:47

Now, Tony, I'm just enjoying Ah, there we go.

Roy: 58:50

To try again. No,

Jaime: 58:52

I was just saying that, Oh, traditionally, the utility of art is just to look at it and appreciate it, you know? Yeah, no, absolutely. When you tokenize stuff, there is interesting stuff that you can do with it when you know exactly, exactly who owns it, and where it came from, and just all this stuff and how to interact with smart contracts. There's stuff you can do that's interesting. That can sort of add value or make the ownership more interesting. But yeah, I think there's like, so much variety and optionality to what NFT can be that for the most part, that kind of stuff, those interactions, to me make a lot more sense for NFT projects that are like kind of thoroughly not about the art. And the art is just sort of a top layer representation of really the token underneath. And that token is is the interesting thing, not the art not the art that you know, the token points to or whatever where he's on chain if it's fully on chain art.

Roy: 59:54

Yeah. Yep, I agree with that.

Jaime: 59:57

Tough question, though, when you don't know actually is Have you with her? But we kind of gave answers for both. Yep. I would say one other thing. In terms of like me, for instance, if it looks like Oh, Jamie has been buying a lot of LFTR. And then it switches to Oh, Jamie has been buying a lot of utility and fts. It's just, I feel like I've packed my art bags, so to speak at that point. And I'm thinking, oh, I need to diversify a little bit into utility. And I'm sort of just kind of always looking at my portfolio of entities like that and trying to have some sort of good balance. But it's it's very hard to know what that is. And the lines are very blurred between things like art and utility and community and all that stuff.

Roy: 1:00:37

Yeah, it is very, it all sorts of sort of blends together for the most part in one way or another. Alright, rice farmer says, Do you have any thoughts on sandbox versus decentraland?

Jaime: 1:00:49

I don't know very much about decentraland at all, like, I don't know much about Metaverse and land in general. But I feel like decentraland is the the of the big ones, the one that I know the least about.

Roy: 1:01:01

Yeah, I think I would agree with that. I I'm familiar with the structure roughly in that. It's a decentralized metaverse. So there's the it's owned by a Dao, I think like the whole place. I think I jumped in there once just run around many months ago. And it was

Jaime: 1:01:20

it had parties there a decent amount, yeah.

Roy: 1:01:24

And sandbox like I, I've got some land there. I hear great things. There's tons of collabs. And all the big projects seem to be in their their alpha is coming out next week, which is pretty exciting.

Jaime: 1:01:38

That is exciting, actually. Because it's it's it's been a big project that is still so theoretical and futures. It'll be interesting to really get something to look at and Playland.

Roy: 1:01:49

Yeah, I guess we don't have any significant thoughts, because we don't really know decentraland. That will

Jaime: 1:01:55

know, I also, frankly, don't know, sandbox that Well, I tried to buy land a few times, and it didn't work. And I've, I've never really looked at the secondary market. I'm not sure how much premium land matters and anything where you can teleport, I know it'll matter. Some. And, you know, obviously, other people have also had this sort of worry about the idea of paying for premium land. And I also don't know, when you have a sort of centralized entity like, like sandbox controlling it. I don't know how much you can count on scarcity of land being a thing that provides sort of an inherent value or floor to your land. Without them just going, You know what, we can just make money if we keep creating more land, I just I don't know how to trust in that sort of situation, sort of the same thing. Same reason I can't get into Top Shot. I'm not sure why they're not just going to flood the market. And it seems like they've done that.

Roy: 1:02:52

Yeah, I mean, I know that some Sandbox has said that there's a specific limit on the number of land that they will release. But you know, it's not a big number. It is a large number. And each plot of land and sandbox is very big. Yeah. But like it is also like, if it is the metaverse and where everyone is gonna be hanging out, then you need a little Yeah,

Jaime: 1:03:12

it also seems too though, like, I imagine there's going to be sort of easy versions of a save file or whatever. So if I have one plot of land, and I want to do three things with it, it seems like it should be easy to switch back. It's not you're gonna have to bulldoze it and rebuild every time, right? It should be easy to snap between different experiences in any one given amount of land. So I think the the functional amount of land might even be bigger than the already big amount of actual land in that sense.

Roy: 1:03:42

Yeah, no, I agree with that. I mean, it

Jaime: 1:03:45

could make for some, like super exciting things that you could build where like, you basically have one zone, but because you have so many different things saved and like it's programmable, you can basically, you know, create a whole world that is functionally the size of many zones within one zone and just kind of have it switch when you walk to the edge or whatever. Yeah, theoretically,

Roy: 1:04:07

the sort of like, the possibilities are awesome. Think about Yeah. Wow, land has gotten really expensive over the last month, I guess. It's now um,

Jaime: 1:04:17

yeah, after the metaverse announcement at all, all that stuff shot up.

Roy: 1:04:20

Yeah, but it's just sort of continued to rock it up. Let me so now like the cheapest land you can buy in the sandbox, like 2300 sand. And sound is like$4.30 each. So

Jaime: 1:04:34

sort of looking at like two basically two ether. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. I mean, they are huge compared to like, what was the other one? Crypto voxels and stuff like that. Yeah, there is so much land that, you know, theoretically, you might be able to make full awesome experiences that are as cool as a game from a big gaming company on a single plot of land. Yeah. Right. Potato says have you used any platforms other than OpenSea to trade NFTs?

Roy: 1:05:05

Um, I have done a couple of transactions unrecoverable. I have bid and won a couple of pieces on foundation. I think Oh, and off off the Ethereum network. I've done some stuff on hand on tasers, on some marketplace on Phantom. And I think that's it.

Jaime: 1:05:35

Yeah, I think I've gotten basically two things on hand. And, you know, for specifically, they say the word trading, I think they mean buying and selling, but I've also done trading where I'm trading my ERC. 721 for your ERC. 721 or multiple and stuff like that. And I've done stuff like that on like, NFT trader and pseudo swap before. But definitely 99% of my buying and selling of vanities has been on open say,

Roy: 1:06:09

Yeah, I've also done the trades. But yeah. Just a pin says, learnings you can share from the Zen Academy launch. So I yeah, I kind of touched on it a little bit at the end of last episode. learnings I would say. So my launch has been unlike most projects launches, because it is not a hype thing is not generative art like it's just true. ERC 1155 tokens, it's just it's a simple launch, and it went smooth, thankfully, all good. I don't have too much to learn about it. The only thing that I thought of that I would do differently. A couple of days off of the fact which I've now gone back on is that for the 300 and 333. Club, it was a whitelist only meant, and I put out a Google form like a month prior to when the mint began. And I selected people from there. And I didn't like double check before minting just to see if people were still interested.

Jaime: 1:07:19

That was too far in advance, you think? Yes. Especially given

Roy: 1:07:23

how much the market shifted like when it when I put that form out, it was in a pretty bullish place. And then we had a pretty big bear market. So a lot of people were just either that didn't have the liquidity anymore. They didn't want to spend the liquidity on this. You know, they changed their mind for one other reason. And so I whitelisted 320 people and have them, you know, maybe 30. minted. And I think that yeah, I mean, and then I damned, literally everyone on the list, just to check and most people will like yeah, you know, I've changed my mind. Liquidity is different, the market has changed, I intended to buy, a few didn't intend to buy and they just thought it was the cheap NFT. And so immediately after like a couple of days, only immediately after I was like, I should have done this prior to min. And then whitelist, like sent out a whitelist of people who were genuinely wanting to buy. However, given like a week's reflection now, I think that had it been a whitelist of, you know, even like 150 people that would generally get a min. On that day, I think that I would have been overwhelmed and the discord would have been a bit too chaotic and would have been like, too much like with a three three club especially, I'm really enjoying the slow and steady pace of new members joining, having a discussion with them hearing about their projects jumping on a call the day of the next day, and it just wouldn't have been possible with 100 to 300 people. So yeah, the only thing I may have done differently is to message them in advance and check the whitelist. But I'm content with the outcome. What else did I learn? I mean, I learned basic things that anyone launching a project would learn sort of like how to deploy your own contract from like a technical perspective. And it's fairly straightforward. My dev walked me through it, you just like copy paste the code from GitHub, put it into a Deployer. Like there's a website remix, and then change a couple settings, upload it. And then it's like it's launched. I actually launched it as connected, like the owner of the contract is my wallet that I controls. That means the dev no one else can actually do anything in relation to the contract. So I definitely learned things from a technical perspective in terms of how to deploy a contract, how to do things with it, like on the ether scan page, I can if I want to pause minting other contracts, I can give tokens out which I've been doing for various reasons. Yeah, so I mean, I learned a lot from that perspective, but in terms of lessons learned, From the the launch itself and things I would do differently not much what did you learn? Learn from the academy?

Jaime: 1:10:10

I probably less than you right?

Roy: 1:10:13

Probably. Yeah.

Jaime: 1:10:17

I was just gonna go to the next question. Unless you wanted me to actually struggled. But that Yeah, it seems pretty aimed at you. Yeah. All right, go ahead and read this one. Luca

Roy: 1:10:26

bazooka, nice name says project. Project organic growth and taking time to build community is the top of the hour. What does organic mean to you? How would you define organic growth? Why is it important in the first place, waving at you, Rory and Jamie?

Jaime: 1:10:44

Okay, what do you what do you think about this?

Roy: 1:10:48

How's also having you went on?

Jaime: 1:10:51

Okay, well, here I can answer quickly. From high school biology class, organic to me meant that it contains carbon. But then from like a nutritional standpoint, you know, like hippies have a different word, which basically means like, no pesticides, that was never really what, you know, I still went back to my first definition was again, contains carbon. how food is,

Roy: 1:11:17

right. Alright, a

Jaime: 1:11:21

dancer seriously, now about the NFL stuff. Sorry. You know, you see a lot of Discord is where they're doing stuff like Twitter raids and stuff, like rewarding people for D listing or not putting floor at, you know, any price below X. That, to me is all inorganic. And I would say organic is basically the opposite of that, where the people talking about the project are genuinely talking about it, because it's interesting, because it's fun, because they like the arc. And the price growth is from basically an increase in demand that is coming, you know, not from the dev wallet. And isn't just a temporary crunch on supply that's orchestrated to try and get the price to come up. But is from genuinely people not wanting to sell, and genuinely people wanting to join it rather than, you know, convoluted ways to try and encourage those that don't actually have to do with the underpinnings of the project.

Roy: 1:12:27

Yeah, I basically agree with all of that. I think it's important, I think because it is. If the growth is not organic, if it's based on you know, the project, sweeping the floor, or incentivizing the listing, or anything like that, then it's like the it's likely that those attracted to the project attracted to it, just for a quick flip, get rich, quick number go up type thing. And at the first time,

Jaime: 1:12:58

they're kind of treating it like shit coins. Yes, exactly. treated a lot.

Roy: 1:13:02

Yeah. And so like that, they'll get in and get out. Or they'll know if it starts dumping they'll get out and it'll be a racist project

Jaime: 1:13:09

where the discord was just booting people from the discord if they listed below a certain price,

Roy: 1:13:14

a party, a billionaire club or something like that. That's a, that's a great example of yes, it's great. They said growth. If you're if you list your thing for under 1/8, we will kick you from the discord. So stupid. Yeah. And yes, so that sort of stuff is, is inorganic, I guess it organic is. So I always say the best type of growth for project is organic. And the best way to get organic growth is time. Like you need to have a good product that people actually desire. And they need to spend a lot of time networking, talking to people in the space, not even necessarily about your product, just a project just about NFT's. And then they get to know you. And then from you know, your project, maybe it's linked to in your Twitter profile, people click through find out you, you know, find out your project organically. And then if they love it, then they tell their friends. And then that is organic growth. And it just takes time. And the biggest reason projects struggle with organic growth, in my opinion, is either the project is just not that good. It's just like, it's maybe it's fine. It but it's just a copy of every other project.

Jaime: 1:14:25

And what I think of a little bit lately is like eponym and batoh have felt to me like they've had great organic growth because people are just seeing the outputs on Twitter and being delighted going. This is this is interesting. This is new. This is unique. This looks good. And that to me is a very organic version of it.

Roy: 1:14:45

Yeah, exactly. It's have you by the

Jaime: 1:14:49

way, have you seen the new bottle when that thing looks crazy?

Roy: 1:14:51

No. Well, maybe, maybe I saw some green and there's

Jaime: 1:14:55

like a flying dragony creature looking thing.

Roy: 1:14:58

I'm going to look at it right now. I think It looks great. I think I like saw it. First thing after I woke up and then I didn't really get to look into it. And now I can't find it. Oh, here we go. Yeah, that does look amazing. Yeah, whatever project. Yeah. Yeah. So I know I was saying that the reasons projects struggle with organic growth is if the product and project is just not amazing, or they're just not putting in the time, they're like, they're working on the product and and, you know, they think that they work they are actually working a lot but they're not actively working to boots on the ground, grow the community, grow their own following and brand and just reputation and being known in the community and networking. And like it does take time, it takes time and a good product to get organic growth and then hopefully

Jaime: 1:15:50

looking at some of these other bottle outputs and not listening too much. And they're

Roy: 1:15:55

done. I'm about to be lampada outputs but I think that was our last question. So maybe we should yeah, wrap this new

Jaime: 1:16:02

i i pulled it up so I could talk about the same one as you but then I looked at the other ones that didn't win for this current batch this work I do one is amazing as well. Do you? Do? They tweeted it? 10 hours ago work? Uh, do a diu AGI do that kind of word.

Roy: 1:16:20

Yeah, I'm familiar with the word. I'm just trying to find my god

Jaime: 1:16:23

scenery work is they posted that one before that. Holy shit. Moto is getting really good.

Roy: 1:16:29

It is getting really Oh, wow. These are amazing. It's

Jaime: 1:16:35

a crazy project. Anyway, Twitter, Twitter q&a, right. Yeah, so we have done it.

Roy: 1:16:42

We have done it, we may continue to do Twitter q&a is as a separate episode. We may join them together in the future.

Jaime: 1:16:51

It's yeah, I think it makes sense to me that we can get more on time. AYP and our blocks and other projects and news of the week stuff out if we're not as hampered to the longer format that also includes includes Twitter q&a, and just always kind of having it come out on Tuesday. So we're trying to think about being a little bit more flexible with you know, format and length and release date try to try and get out the same amount of content but in more digestible and timely fashion.

Roy: 1:17:23

Yeah. If you really hate that we don't have a regular release date. Let us know.

Jaime: 1:17:31

Yeah. Or if you love it on Sept. Even more so let us not right, we would prefer positive reinforcement to criticism but we will take both

Roy: 1:17:41

we will we will and if you love the podcast we would appreciate a rating and review on

Jaime: 1:17:48

yeah subscribe to it tell other people to subscribe that's that's your what's the

Roy: 1:17:53

apple thing Apple podcasts iTunes iTunes is the one I don't use Apple products much anymore but all the podcasts are always saying they want the ratings on iTunes.

Jaime: 1:18:04

Yeah I would just say the most important thing is to subscribe though and then and tell other people that you think would like it

Roy: 1:18:11

yeah telephone but

Jaime: 1:18:13

but rates and reviews are good as well.

Roy: 1:18:15

Only if you like us if you hate us

Jaime: 1:18:17

yeah if you got this far hate nice I don't know why you're punishing yourself still Yeah, and but go do something else. There's better stuff to do that listen to a podcast you hate. Yeah, shows I've done it. Not for long enough. Yeah, I try a new one. And I go I do not like this.

Roy: 1:18:34

Yeah. All right. All right. Twitter Q&A!

Jaime: 1:18:39

Twitter Q&A! All right, this is has been episode 15.5 Right?

Roy: 1:18:46

I guess Oh, should we just go 16

Jaime: 1:18:48

Episode 16

Roy: 1:18:50

This has been episode 16.

Jaime: 1:18:52

Bye.

Intro: 1:18:56

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh