Two Bored Apes - NFT Podcast

Episode 22 - Twitter Q & A (4)

December 22, 2021 Two Bored Apes
Two Bored Apes - NFT Podcast
Episode 22 - Twitter Q & A (4)
Show Notes Transcript

Episode 22 of Two Bored Apes is the fourth Twitter Q & A episode. Jaime and Roy talk about P2E gaming ecosystems, their favorite projects on fxhash, and land in the metaverse, as well as many other topics.

Show Notes:
Jaime's Twitter
Roy's Twitter
Podcast's Twitter
Official Scribbled Boundaries Prints
Coolman's Universe
Favorite Fxhash Collections: Other Places, Distorted Areas, Artbox, Jardín, Reading a book, Hashed Cities, Circles, Sequence, Garden Monoliths, Coalesce


Intro:

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Jamie:

Welcome to Episode 22 of Two Bored Apes. I'm your host, Jamie and I'm here with my friend and co host Roy. Roy, how are you?

Roy:

I'm very well, how are you? Oh, you got to get very quickly again, because you have to go soon.

Jamie:

I do have to go. So you know, we can only record a couple of questions right now. And then we're gonna have to record the rest later. So let's just hop right into a Twitter q&a episode four Mike Whoa, Twitter q&a. First question, Mike woo says Will 2022 be the year of play to earn seems like every project new and old is getting into it. On the flip side, Axie infinity economics have been trending downwards.

Roy:

I do think that 2022 We're gonna see sort of an even more of an explosion of gaming, NFT's. And people will be experimenting with different players and models. Some of them will be more successful than others. But at least I think the first half of 2022 is going to be quite heavily centered around gaming entities slash play to earn NFTs. What do you think?

Jamie:

I think there'll be some to it, I don't I don't know that. At the end of 2022, we'll look back and say, Wow, this was truly the year of play to earn. You know, a lot of people have been pointing out that play to earn is a fine concept. But ultimately, people want games that are fun and entertaining.

Roy:

Yeah Play And Earn is a phrase I heard.

Jamie:

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And you know, things like Axie and Zed, I think are showing us how it's not that easy to design a game that can kind of be sustainable, and let the individuals earn money, while the company's earning money while the you know, marketplaces are taking transaction fees. And all of this without having, you know, three winners and 32,000 people that are losing or a couple really big whales that are happy to keep losing money. It's just it's, it's not an easy model to sustain. So I think there's gonna be, there's gonna be a lot of people trying to do a lot of projects trying to do it. Certainly. You know, one thing about this kind of thing that I'm curious about sort of is, we have so many gaming, NFT's for games that aren't out yet. So it'll be interesting to see. You know, there's gonna be a lot of sinking and a lot of swimming, I think of previously promised games, and it'll be interesting to see who succeeds and who doesn't. And then contrast that sort of with what are the projects that haven't even been announced yet? And, and how will those be structured? And what will they be able to learn from, you know, the winners and losers of the previous environment, you know, as the current ones are possibly learning from Axie and Zed, and where they went right and where they went wrong?

Roy:

Yeah, no, I think people are already definitely learning and looking at least Axie and Zed, because there's such they are pioneers in the space. And you know, they've been successful, but not without issues. And as as the as Mike mentions, Axie Infinity, economics have been trending downwards, I think, just as the community and ecosystem realizes that when new people stop joining and spending money, it is difficult to sustain sort of the earning rates that were there earlier in the year, and just any sort of earning rates, because at the end of the game, you know, you need money pumping in some way somehow to sustain people earning and taking money out of the ecosystem. Money just doesn't grow on trees, as they say, even NFT trees. Remember those? I was thinking about them the other day, did you ever meet any?

Jamie:

No, I remember a couple different tree projects. I mean, I have his NFT tree, but I don't have like a treeverse tree. And then there was one other one that I think like, I think is the one you're talking about.

Roy:

Yeah, it was free. And yeah,

Jamie:

I remember gas was too high and going for him. Yeah. And then later, I got confused and thought that was treeverse I was like, Oh, shit, I should have minted it. Yeah. Anyway, I just want to say another thing. So you're sort of talking about how you need more people to come in with money to kind of keep it sustaining. But in the other options sort of is for the existing people within the ecosystem, to feel like they can put more of their expendable income into the game as a form of entertainment. And you don't necessarily need to keep onboarding new people as long as the people there want to keep you know, putting more into it. Although, if the game is good enough for them and want to do it, you would think that the player base is also going to be growing at that time.

Roy:

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you don't need more people. But you do need more money or you just need money coming in, whether it's from new new people or existing members continuing to, to spend this valuable income. Yeah, sort of like how with a lot of these mobile games now with microtransactions, people tend to be quite happy paying $2 $3 $5.99 $110, you know, for all these tools.

Jamie:

Yeah, sorry, from from what I understand most of that stuff, though, is you have a situation where about 97% or whatever play for totally free. And then there's a very small percentage of big whales who are just happy to dump money. I remember actually, when I was playing in the, those short deck games in China a lot, there was one guy who I can't even remember the name of the app. So I'm sorry about that. But he was like, it's just kind of one of those Clash of Clans types games, but a more Asian native one. And he was just dumping literally 10s of 1000s of dollars into it every single month.

Roy:

That's so crazy. But yeah, I mean, yeah, we'll probably see some of that in these ecosystems. Yeah, they're positionally fun.

Jamie:

There's many, many trillions of dollars in the economy. So you're really, you just need to capture people's attention and entertain them, and you get a bunch of it. And certainly, some of that will happen within the ecosystem of, of NFT based games like that, that's a certainty. We'll just have to see what the models will be, and to what extent and all that stuff.

Roy:

Yep. Next question. says, Do you think VR empowers people to address their mental health? Can it be? And what are your guys's experiences with VR?

Jamie:

I read this question initially. And I thought it was interesting, because I had never really thought of like, I'm not I'm not sure where the question is coming from. Because it's not something I feel like I've ever heard. You know, the mental health angle of VR, I've heard a little bit about the other day, there was an article like people are getting groped in, in VR or whatever. So that was sort of an issue they were talking about. But people to address her mental health, I think the AR certainly has the power to allow people to work on their mental health, you know, we, in COVID, we've had a lot of people having to switch their therapy sessions to remote and stuff like that. And I could definitely see how you could have a VR environment that is more calming and open and conducive to productivity in that kind of situation than just a zoom call, for instance.

Roy:

Yeah, no, I also had that like, unsure reaction when I read the message, not exactly knowing what they were talking about. But yeah, I think that there is something to having some sort of therapy in VR. Meanwhile, you know, being in a safe place, knowing you're at home, in your house, in a certain, you know, physical environment to give when you

Jamie:

craft the environment. I mean, yeah, it's like it's theoretically very helpful.

Roy:

Yeah, I mean, a silly example that just sort of came up to me or maybe not that silly is like I am very arachnid phobic. I hate spiders just terrifies me still, even though I pretended I wasn't for a few months. But that didn't stick. I

Jamie:

remember that. I remember that. Yeah,

Roy:

I could, you know, theoretically, I could see a situation where if I were VR, and like, in this virtual reality situation, there are spiders, you know, crawling on me. But in my head, I know that it's not real. It could potentially, like make me more customed to the situation. So though, in real life, I just the fear dissipates, and I think right type of thing could be expanded exposure therapy

Jamie:

exposure therapy is sort of how they try to approach Yeah. Have you had I mean, a second part of the question is phobias, I think. Yeah. And VR certainly seems like it would be a sort of a safer way to to work your way into that and a lot of what do you guys experiences with VR? Maybe you had any instances. experience with it I've never used an at home headset, I I've definitely done a little bit in like higher end arcade games. But I have very little experience with it.

Roy:

I've also not used one well at home per se but I've used I think the at home headsets at Pax and Oculus. He I'm gonna guess it was an Oculus. I can't exactly remember, but I mean, probably wasn't Oculus, let's be be real. Yeah, you know, several years ago, actually, like, you know, maybe four years ago, at one of these big gaming convention things in Melbourne, Australia, the they had just VR, you know, things set up where you could line up and go in and play a game for 20 minutes and it was really, really cool. Like even back then. It just seemed great. I played a couple of games. It seemed very real and yeah, earlier this year, I someone was telling me I really should get an Oculus and test it out. test out like some namespace and stuff. And I think I went to the website and said that was sold out. And then I was like I said, I'll get to it later and haven't tried to get one.

Jamie:

Yeah, I was, I was actually just telling my friend the other day that the Oculus commercials have been working on me lately on TV. I think maybe they've been playing them robot turn NFL games or during the DVR sitcoms, I watch. But I've definitely been seeing a lot more of them. And the stuff that they're showing does look like, it's cool. And it's also like, they didn't just take a game and kind of allow you to look around in three dimensions. They're like, making sort of VR native experiences, like games that really, you know, they're just not porting stuff to VR, they're making stuff that makes sense to be in VR. And that kind of thing is very exciting. And I always, I always like technological advances, and I'm willing to get in on them once they're ready. So I'm, I have very little experience, but I think quite soon I'll probably have a lot.

Roy:

Yeah, I'm actually I'm gonna see if I can buy one. Because Amazon has them for 470 euros. I can't tell if that's cheaper, expensive. Hang on. That's like .13 eth. That's very cheap

Jamie:

Yeah if you're paying in eth, that would be cheap as hell yeah.

Roy:

Man, everything is cheap when he put it in eth.

Jamie:

Alright, let's, let's do one more question before I have to go. And then we'll bring later Lindsey Burns says, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on music, NFTs. And in particular, if you have seen warpedsound_AI, I am on the team. So of course want to get her on your radar. I'll just say off the bat. I have not heard of that or seen it. Have you? I have also

Roy:

not. Yeah, I mean, music NFT's in general, I think is going to be a huge industry. But we haven't really seen them. I guess take off, we've seen a couple like the EULA beats, you know that that have done very well. But there's been some

Jamie:

musicians who have sold music videos for a few eth as as NFT's. And yeah, there's def def beef is a big musical NFT guy. But certainly, musicians are going to monetize effectively through NFT's. But it's just another thing where we, we haven't quite found the way to, I said we meaning you know, the collective I'm not really personally a part of trying to do that. But I don't think we've found quite the right way to do it yet. But certainly there's a successful way to disrupt the existing label industry of music with NFT's, and it will happen. I think we're just so early into figuring out how to use all this tech for that kind of thing.

Roy:

Yeah. Did you see the faint the comments that Brian Eno made the other day? I did? Yeah. So this is someone who's you know, created music being a producer, and his net worth is like 60 70 million. And then he was coming out and saying, How

Jamie:

are you too? Or did I make that big about it? I was gonna say, is he a member of YouTube? Or did I make that?

Roy:

He's not I don't think a member but I think well, like not a musician, but I think like maybe he helped produce them or distribute the stuff. Maybe he's a member. I don't actually know him that well. But yeah, he was sort of shitting on NFT's about how, you know, now all these artists are coming out and being like little capitalist

Jamie:

was a little bit shitting on him, but also a little bit validating is the way I read it.

Roy:

Yeah, I mean, he wasn't completely he

Jamie:

was kind of trying to shit on capitalism, which is hilarious. Yes. It's that that rich? Yeah. Yeah. And complaining about how like, it'll just allow artists to take part in the capitalism game. It's like, Yeah, buddy, we're in it. Yeah. And people like you are sucking a lot of the money that possibly they deserve. And we're sorry that this might get more of it to them.

Roy:

Exactly. It was very hypocritical because yeah, he was shitting on capitalism, but then he's raised so much money and billionaire NFT's are gonna now allow some of that money that would otherwise have gone to like one individual now to go back to the creators rather than

Jamie:

one individual, by the way, who has nothing to do with the actual music. And that's not necessarily the case with producers. But there are a lot of people at labels that are not helping the music industry and are just collecting big checks for it.

Roy:

Gavin, I think that's I'm just quickly looking at the website this warp AI it says they are a hybrid of generative profile picture art plus AI composed music minted on the Ethereum blockchain, which sounds pretty cool. It's

Jamie:

a little like fluff world, right?

Roy:

Yeah, sounds a little like fluff. Well, I can't remember if that was aI compose music, or like they just had like 12 different

Jamie:

vendors, a profile picture project that also has a

Roy:

yes, yes, that extent for sure.

Jamie:

If there's lots of stuff that's dabbled in music, but I haven't seen them really. I would say aside from def beef, who's a major artist in the space that does music and nfts. I haven't really seen It take off yet, but I'm sure it

Roy:

will. Yeah, no, I agree with that.

Jamie:

We're also seeing a lot of, like, rappers and DJs in particular, are getting into NFT's in a big way. So I think that will help push it forward and make it more known. Because, you know, in addition to not knowing exactly how to create these play to earn games and music, NFT's and stuff that kind of operate and are structured and just the way right way to succeed. We also just don't have people that are aware of or believe in the very concept of NFT's in so many of these spaces. So we also need to get that up as well.

Roy:

Yeah, and that's just gonna happen with time I guess. And as more of these Yeah, for sure. liberties get in and, you know, talk about it to their audiences and fans and stuff, and start doing more things in the space, I think. Yeah, like once, like, big artists start having Metaverse concerts. I think that'll be a huge catalyst for getting sort of people who weren't necessarily excited about getting into NFT's. Now, they're all of a sudden thinking, Oh, wow, I can you know, attend a concert live in the metaverse.

Jamie:

Yeah. Or you could you could do a tour and you sell the ticket. As like a single NFT that kind of spits off and ERC 1155 for each individual event ad or something like that. There's a million ways to do this. All sorts of interesting stuff. Yeah.

Roy:

Yeah. Tap air one says, I would like to hear what brought you to Munich Ray... It's Roy, but you're very close. I get that quite a lot. I get Troy I get through when we were in Barcelona at the breakfast place. And then whenever that opened the door to the kitchen, they'd be like, Oh, around. Yeah. Anything that ends in oil. It's like, I'm always turning around and looking to see if someone's talking to me. But anyway, what brought me to Munich, basically, like,

Jamie:

if we're gonna have a tangent on this hearing names, do you know the concept of like, in sports, when somebody has an oo sound in their name, one of the athletes, all the fans in the stadium will do like a fake boo. That's, that's because of their name. But it's a it's a big thing. Kayla and I, a long time ago, went to a Boston Red Sox game. She was not aware of this concept. And they had a player at the time called Kevin Youkilis. And so the fans would go you and it sounded like they're booing. And she was so confused. Like, why did they vote again? Anyway, I guess we could answer the question. Oh,

Roy:

yeah. Um, what brought me to Munich. So Rachel, my fiancee, she our girlfriend at the time, I guess was she got a job offer? Basically, her one of her old bosses moved over here and was working at a company had said, if you want to come over, there's a job for you. And we will like, why not? Like, you know, it sounds like a fun adventure. Live in Europe travel Europe. Neither of us had lived. She had never been to Europe, actually. Which is kind of crazy to get up and move everything. But yeah.

Jamie:

Here's a question for you. Since we like to just get off topic. Australians. Would you say they go to Europe or Asia? More for like holidays? Asians in America? It's definitely Europe. Yeah. Wondering if that was a thing.

Roy:

Yeah, a lot of people go to Thailand, let people go to Bali. Those are probably the big two. But like, yeah, Vietnam, Cambodia. Definitely more apt to go to

Jamie:

some of those places.

Roy:

Me too. Alright, it's not Thai food, right? I had so much Thai food. Jamie, we don't we don't

Jamie:

want to get into the meal that you just had. Alright, her next question is from Ark. Ark says do you think COVID Has was the firestarter for people spending more time online and ultimately finding out about NFT's? In other words, where would the crypto space be right now? If COVID didn't happen? I think certainly it made people spend more time online there. That's that's probably not even arguable. Yeah. And it does seem like it was a boom to the space but I guess that kind of thing is so difficult to really tease out without having some sort of alternate universe where it didn't happen. Yeah. But definitely our lives became more digital and NFT's and crypto are just sort of the digital versions of of ownership of unique goods versus fungible goods. So to me, it makes a lot of sense that as we are forced to be more digital people become more accepting of these things. And and to just keep going for a second. Certainly the places where you would do research and find out about those things right now. Our online stuff Like, there's really good books and stuff at the library that people are gonna get about NFT's and stuff. It's all online.

Roy:

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it is, it's like, it literally is impossible to know what space would be like. Now, if crypto didn't happen, I'm sorry, if COVID didn't happen. I suspect it sort of accelerated the transition or the growth of NFT's and crypto and the whole space. But I think it would have happened eventually, anyway, maybe it just would have been a year later, or several months later, I

Jamie:

can also speak to other countries. But like in America, there was some amount of government assistance where people were basically just getting money to make up for the fact that a lot of them could not go into work. So we could, you know, incentivize the population to stay home. And so the spread of the virus, and not overwhelm hospitals and blah, blah, blah. But definitely, there was a lot of speculation that a lot of those $600 checks ended up finding their way onto Coinbase. And stuff like that.

Roy:

Yeah, the stimulus checks. I've definitely heard people talking about how that I think the first time I heard it was people talking about it going into like GameStop.

Jamie:

And I know, yeah, those mean stocks, that was a whole thing.

Roy:

And then Doge, and then crypto. And, boy,

Jamie:

I used to spend so much time learning about stocks or companies, I should say, really, but just paying attention to the stock market in a way that I have not in so long now. Or it feels like so long, but really, it's nine months.

Roy:

Yeah, it's crazy, huh? Crazy, crazy. Um,

Jamie:

so our answer is yes. And probably but we can't know for sure,

Roy:

I guess. Alright, scrappy T says favorite projects on FX hash. And then we also had another question from Matt W. Who said, what would your five favorite collections be on FX hash? And also, if I could ask a second question, which I guess would be the third question and this question to Jamie, did you get a spectrum?

Jamie:

Okay, I'll answer that one. First, I did not get a spectron. I basically spent one day under bidding the floor by bit and none of my bids fit. But yeah, it's just it's definitely on the list of artblocks, projects that I'm gonna you know, every once in a while, just kind of under bid and see if there's any weekends, because it's definitely a collection that I would love to have one piece of. So now we can get your FX hash stuff.

Roy:

I am pulling up my FX Hash collection right now, because

Jamie:

I didn't have time because I'm a better podcast or than you.

Roy:

When I'm gonna be answering the question.

Jamie:

Sure. Well, I already answered one question out of the three, but I'll hop into another one. I am very new to FX hash, as we know. But for collections that I own pieces of, I would say other places and distorted areas are two that are not super popular on the platform that I really like a lot and have a lot of those two other places we were talking about in the tezos channel in your in your Discord server quite a bit the other day, like when I first got on and I was talking when I first got into FX hash say, and I was talking to other people. You know, they asked to see my collection, I linked to it and somebody else was like Oh, I really like other places. And then we're talking about it. That's when I linked to that Diebenkorn. Which, which you had seen. Anyway, other places are distorted areas I like a lot and artbox is another one that is not super popular that I think looks great. Just say artblocks. Art box is one that kind of kind of looks a little bit like unit grid. Oh, yeah. A weird generated sentence at the bottom of all of them.

Roy:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Can you hear me in the background? I cannot.

Roy:

Alright, she's making all sorts of grainy sounds. Anyway.

Jamie:

Those are three of my faves. Yeah, boy. Sorry. Yeah, there's it. Yeah, there's a zillion collections. And I've probably seen 250 of them. So it's just my opinion barely matters, but but that's what it is.

Roy:

Yeah. Do you follow? Like do you see the MattW updates on Twitter?

Jamie:

Yes. Yeah, he's he's my go to source of information for right now. Me too. So hopefully it is unfortunately, it's a thing that I largely skip and go I'm going to check that out tomorrow or whatever. But certainly, when, when I I've gone on to shop and not just kind of randomly looking for the the stuff that appeals to me that nobody knows about when I'm kind of doing a little bit higher end shopping. I'll go through his list and see what I like from it and see, you know, kind of what fits my budget or whatever. Yeah. Alright, so we answered from you.

Roy:

So me. I really, really love God and monoliths. I mean, it's just like, the

Jamie:

one I'll blame you answer. I know they do look great though like they do no friggin doubt and I would love to have one but I'm just I'm I feel priced out at this point. Yeah, they

Roy:

went up like crazy. I really like reading a book insert joke here yeah, they're like these funky animated pixelated. Just...

Jamie:

god I love generative art

Roy:

me too. They're just interesting. They look kind of like, like the gen two by DCA from art blocks, but

Jamie:

it also looks like defrag a little bit. Yes, yeah. Yeah,

Roy:

like defrag. Yeah. Anyway, I like that I like, we jotted a

Jamie:

little frames so bad. I know. I know. Good digital frames.

Roy:

Yeah. I'm Jordan, I really, really like, which

Jamie:

do you want to talk about are kind of unique thing about Jordan. That was interesting or No?

Roy:

Sure.

Jamie:

So this is a project that when I found, I thought I liked them quite a bit. And it was like at the higher end of what I was willing to spend on an FX ash piece. And I really quite liked them as I was browsing through the collection. But then I found when I would click on an individual one to see the full size image, they became much less appealing to me. And I brought this up to you. And I guess maybe you hadn't even really known about them. And you're like, Oh, let me see what Jordan is. And you had the exact opposite reaction. You're like looking at the election going? Oh, they don't look that great to me. And then you would click them. And when you saw them bigger, with all the detail, they became much more appealing to you.

Roy:

Yeah, I mean, no, I think I had been aware of them because I had some and I liked them in the thumbnail, but I liked them. Like way more blow. Yeah. Okay, so you already knew it. I was like, these are nice. But then I hadn't gotten around to like seeing them in the live view full screen. And like the detail within each of the little. I don't know that within all the lines and stuff it Yeah, I really liked that a lot. So yeah, cool collection. Let me see if there's some that are a little less well known and less Hi. Flori. I like circles.

Jamie:

Some of these, right?

Roy:

I like circles.

Jamie:

Triangles are nice. Yeah. My code NFT. Is that the project

Roy:

we're talking about? A no by ye when Lin.

Jamie:

Okay, because there is one all uppercase called circles. You know,

Roy:

this is just uppercase C. Oh, yeah,

Jamie:

that looks interesting. The first one I saw.

Roy:

Yeah, they seem really nice. What else is the Oh, I really like coalesse there.

Jamie:

Um, that one sounds familiar. Yeah, they're like

Roy:

these animated spheres. They've got a little bit of like the transitions from up looks vibe going on where you can rotate and zoom in and zoom out. And they just Yeah, they're really great. Just play around with and again, you know, the the thumbnails do not do them justice. But

Jamie:

oh, yeah. A little bit of a lava glow and beauty in the hurting situation as well. Yeah.

Roy:

I mean, everyone often just like zoom in. It's just get lost in them. It's really, really Yeah. Generative Art, and yeah, it's just awesome. I picked up two Gentoos by DCA earlier today as well, I guess, which probably cost the entirety of my FX as collections thing.

Jamie:

My mind is like garden monoliths. Yeah.

Roy:

Yeah. Anyway, I think that's that's a good number of fxhash that we've gone through. But there are so many reactions. Yeah, there really are. I don't know if I mentioned anything by heavy or heavy. But I really like basically all of this stuff. Sequence being probably the most popular and famous. Fireworks is also a good one. But yeah.

Jamie:

All right. Next question. Yeah, no,

Roy:

you go on you. Alright, our

Jamie:

next question comes from Luke Feiler. Luke says, What are your tips for mindset while flipping NFTS, for individual flipper, to help them stay accountable for staying on top of their mindset in this fast moving space?

Roy:

So I think they're asking for like, how do you stay on top of your like mental health or like, not necessarily get caught up and full of

Jamie:

more like, how do you not do too much FOMO. And how do you not do too much of like, whatever the opposite of FOMO is? Yeah. How do you stick to your plan that kind of say,

Roy:

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess having a plan in the first place is a good part of that, like coming up. Yeah. It doesn't have to be couldn't be or it shouldn't be and probably can't be like a very Like, methodical, you know, you're gonna do this, this, this, this and this, but like just a general strategy for how you're going to approach the space is just a really good thing to have in mind that you can always fall back on to help guide your decisions. So it could be for instance, if you can afford to mint, multiple other thing, and then try and like, if the price runs up before reveal, always sell one to cover your costs. You know, perhaps it's like never chase on secondary market. So if you miss a mint, and you see it, like rising in price rapidly don't like FOMO in and you know, look to the next one. And I know some people whose strategy is to never buy a secondary only mint and, you know, yes, that means I mean, I opportunities, but yeah,

Jamie:

largely, I think you need to know what, what are you afraid of? And like, what what is your inherent sort of weakness in, in the game of flipping, and then kind of try to find ways to sharpen your mindset against that, you know, because like, you're telling this person, as a for instance, you know, pre reveal, try to sell something, recoup your losses, but if they're, if their issue is selling too early, and not getting big enough gains, that kind of thing is not at all their issue. So you need to, you know, know yourself before you can know, how to, you know, navigate, what kind of flaws you have as as a market participant. Yeah.

Roy:

And I think just sort of on like a macro level, I think, just accepting and coming to terms with the fact that a, you're just never ever going to be able to be on top of everything that's going on in this space, there's just way too much happening. You just won't be able to and be you there's just gonna be infinite regret, like, it's impossible to sell. Oh, my god, yeah, buy things at the right time. Just, Oh, we're

Jamie:

gonna need to have a mental attitude that yeah, that doesn't get beat yourself up for missing out on big, big gains sometimes, because you're gonna miss a ton. For sure. Yeah, I think one thing I would say is that if you look at the amount that you're paying in gas, and royalties and open sea fees, and the you know, prices that previous projects have gone up to, to make money in this game, you're gonna need some really big wins, like, I don't think you can really try to rely on trying to flip every NFT that you meant, or buy for 20% more than your purchase price. So find a way to, to be able to find pieces that you think you can really hold for a long time, that will be able to get you those 10 x's are 50 x's or even 100 x's, because that that seems to me for the time being to be where an outsized amount of the returns are for NF T's. Yeah, especially at the lower end of the of the purchase prices. Mm, yeah.

Roy:

A lot of people fail to sort of take into account all the fees, and they really do add up, if you're trying to do if you're trying to flip

Jamie:

and the taxes I mean, Jesus, yeah, the other end,

Roy:

it's really insane. And it's getting so, so much more difficult to to play the flipping game. I really, I think it's almost time that most people will probably almost all people should be considering. Not trying to do like the quick flips too much. And instead focus on other strategies. Perhaps, like, there's so many other strategies where you can still make money if it's like bidding, and trying to find things that uh, that that people will just sell for below floor and having them pay the gas.

Jamie:

Yeah, I mean, especially so far, like, this month, as it seems like so many people are tax loss harvesting. Yeah. I mean, it seems like the people who were not worried about that, and we're sort of actively bidding, there's probably been a lot of really great purchasers that that it might not be revealed how successful and good those purchases were for a while, but some people made some great great buys from people that are trying to tax loss harvest.

Roy:

Yeah, absolutely. All right. FiOS says what are your thoughts on land sales in the NFT space? Do you think it limits competition at all? Or do you see major faults in the business model?

Jamie:

I don't know what they mean. Do you think it limits competition at all? Do you

Roy:

Yeah, I don't think I know that either.

Jamie:

But we can do the rest of the question. Certainly.

Roy:

Yeah. What do you do you think there's any faults in the business model of lands like a lot of people say it's like a artificially Scott's you know, you can just create more land it's not like real land etc, etc. just pixels.

Jamie:

Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately, if you look at my wallet and my wallet history, you have to assume that I do think that there's some sort of fault in the business model, because I've literally never purchased a piece of land. That's NFT. But I have tried to play by sandbox land a few times. So I don't, I don't hate the concept of it. But I do find it to be harder to wrap my brain around than some of the other stuff. You know, just another thing that I talk about a lot in general with NFT's is that a lot of the value in a lot of projects is so future based. I talk about this a lot with gaming NFT's but also, definitely with this Metaverse land stuff. And so that's stuff that relies so much on a project being very successful way in the future is much tougher for me to feel confident in, especially when the prices have already appreciated, you know, it's not as if you can get sandbox land for .08 eth for a plot, and then just kind of hope that they work it out and are successful, versus all the competition and all the you know, artificial scarcity arguments that you might make about it. Whereas, you know, for instance, profile picture projects, or just flat out art, the utility is basically already there. And it might grow as time goes on. But, you know, these gaming, inland NFT's a lot of them have literally no use for the time being. And so that, to me is a little bit tougher, especially again, when the prices are already acting as if it's, you know, sort of a sure thing that it'll succeed.

Roy:

Yeah, I think with land prices, land prices in the last couple of months have really just gone parabolic. And yeah, after the after the meta announcement. Yeah, I think I am a little more, I guess, sympathetic to the idea of paying for I don't know if that's the right word, but like, I'm a little more on board with the

Jamie:

like, I don't mean to. Yeah,

Roy:

I'm more understanding, like, again, sounds like the wrong thing. Um, I earned Metaverse land. I like it. I think it's valuable. To put it that way. I'm,

Jamie:

like, I'm certain that some of it will be valuable. It's just it seems tough to me to tell, which will be and how long before the value is real rather than? Like, I don't want to say hypothetical, but some somewhere like that.

Roy:

Yeah. So sort of an analogy was maybe speculum speculative? Yeah, an analogy that I've used before, which I think is not perfect. But it's sort of like, if you compare to the real world, it's not like there's a, necessarily a scarcity of land like, you can, that you can buy a plot of land in the middle of nowhere in, you know, a just middle of nowhere with nothing close to any natural resources, no closer any infrastructure, and it'd be like dirt cheap, basically, you'd get a very, very, very cheap,

Jamie:

I get it dirt. Because you're kind of

Roy:

you meanwhile, you know, an apartment or any land in Manhattan is extremely expensive. And why is it expensive? It's because there's a lot of demand for wanting to live there. You know, there's a lot of infrastructure that there's, you know, jobs and, you know, utilities and entertainment and all this stuff that's there. And yes, it was first there because it was like, you know, next to water and a river and coast and all that kind of stuff. But by and large, it's like it's valuable, because all the people want to live there and have built stuff there. And so in a way, I think these Metaverse plots, they're like, people have now bought land, and they're building stuff. They're like the Bored Ape Yatch Club. Maybe it's going to be valuable to have land near the club in the metaverse now. And it's sort of like, yeah, it is artificial. But then, so is so many other things in life that I can sort of wrap my head around it a bit more, I guess.

Jamie:

Yeah, the whole concept of artificial scarcity to is a little weird, because you could say that about every NFT project, basically, right? Like, yeah, we could have had 38,000 for dances, but we only have 1000 hosts, we kind of only wanted to have 1000 to make the model more special and stuff.

Roy:

It's an interesting concept, artificial scarcity, like I tweeted out a couple days ago, what are like everyone's, what arguments do people hear against NFT's and the artificial scarcity one came up quite a bit. And I mean, when you think about it, there's something to it like

Jamie:

definitely, yeah. But But like, for something like if you want to talk back about the Fidenzas and stuff, there is definitely a push and pull within, you know, an algorithm and how versatile it is and how much you start diminishing previous mints when you keep making more and more and more, because you end up with ones that are so strikingly similar to previous ones by the time you're minting fidenza, number 28,001 20,000. Until you go, that one looks a lot like number 4724.

Roy:

Yeah, it's definitely different with generative art. But like, let's say, an artist that creates sort of, quote unquote, one of one art and then releases 30 editions of it, or 1000 editions of it, then it starts to become more just like at what point is

Jamie:

it? But that also very much has existed for a long time in traditional art where you just did they'll do 100 prints of something.

Roy:

Yeah. Even in like collectibles, Pokemon cards, baseball cards, etc.

Jamie:

Yeah, it's, it's kind of well trodden territory in a non digital sense.

Roy:

Yep. All right, next question. kuliah

Jamie:

says, just got an official print of scribbled boundaries. Have you ordered prints yourself from our plots, artists? And what do you think of it, I think it adds a lot of value for the holder. That last sentence, by the way, was Kiluahs us That was not me prematurely answering.

Roy:

I love scribble boundaries. I think that's a really cool project.

Jamie:

I after we got this tweet, I went to the website and nearly ordered my two as prints. I probably will tomorrow or something.

Roy:

That's exciting. I bet you look great as prints.

Jamie:

And I really liked it too, that I got to so I'll be happy about that. Yeah, I would agree, though, I think it does add value for the holder, I think it's an interesting thing, because it is very much a situation where you are trusting the artist in terms of them, being able to, I don't want to use the word curate because it's not quite right. But picking the right paper and the right printing process and all of that stuff when you do it, because ultimately, with the license that at least most artblocks projects are given you have the rights to to have a print made for yourself, just by owning it, and you don't actually have to go through the artist. So you might be able to do it for cheaper and stuff like that. But it is nice to have, you know, like for instance, with these scribbled boundary ones, that they're gate kept behind a website where you have to connect your wallet and stuff like that. And each one is only going to get minted, or I'm sorry, one of these official prints wants the same way that Tyler Hobbs has been doing with the Fidenzas. So those are those are actually quite special prints and are different from if you just had the print done for yourself.

Roy:

Yeah, no, absolutely. I guess you get the sort of potential upside of the artists will sign it themselves and add that little touch to it. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah, this is a generative artist who has a lot of work on OpenSea called crypto Bauhaus be a you ha us. It's like a famous sort of art style. And I'm may not be pronouncing Bauhaus correctly. But that's okay. Anyway, they offer free prints with every piece that you buy directly from them. I got some a couple a couple months back. So that's, that's pretty cool. And I definitely like that. Yeah, that

Roy:

is really cool.

Jamie:

I mean, it is sort of interesting, though. I'm sorry to cut you off. You don't one of the things that I like so much about collecting NFT art is that you don't need to have the wall space to be able to collect it and appreciate it. So it is funny to kind of go the other way but I'm very much planning for when Kayla and I get our next house and move out of here. What What kind of art I want to have on the walls and in various places. And and I'm I'm sort of curating a lot of my art NFT's right now, with a goal to have nice prints or digital frames up displaying them.

Roy:

Yeah, no, I'm really excited for the day that Rachel and I moved back to Australia and get a house that you know, we feel comfortable ordering all these prints for because I just don't really see the point of ordering any right now because we're just going to have to move them from Germany back to Australia and yeah, but I think it is a nice value added I'm really excited for it to get some of these prints.

Jamie:

Yeah, it's it's all it's a great like, you know, we talk a lot about digital frames and how exciting it'll be when we have them and stuff. But ultimately, those are really only necessary for like the end animated stuff. Yeah. All the all the static images are great things to just get printed.

Roy:

It's gonna be so cool. Just having so much art all over the house, the assamica project that I'm a huge fan of, and keep buying on the podcast seemingly lately. Yeah, no, no,

Jamie:

we also kind of became fans of it on the air. Yeah, yeah. They,

Roy:

that was an actual trait of the, the, the the project, which is paper style, and that dictates the type of paper that they would print this on. You can add school linen grain or speckled. And it's just like, they've got a couple of examples.

Jamie:

And they're doing official prints. Yeah, yeah. That's cool.

Roy:

It is very cool. Wow, the floor one right now. It's point .18 eth. Last bought for 1.08 eth. Like, why a month ago? Something Yeah. People taking some big girls, even the most recent curated drop has kind of tanked a lot. Which, well, I like to drop but I think a lot of speculators bought

Jamie:

as it's interesting, how many speculators keep doing that they're still there. Yeah, learning their lesson or what I mean, I guess ultimately, this goes back a little bit to the, to the flipping question from a few questions ago. But there is sort of, I think, the hope, and it's realistic, ultimately, that one of these projects will be something like the next fidenza or whatever, where the market just loves it. And the price really, really appreciates. And then and then these flippers will feel great.

Roy:

Yeah. And like we seem to have every few weeks or so like, there is a project that is breakout, like we had gazes by Matt Cain, which I think it dropped really low on the Dutch auction, and then it just rocketed up to like a multiple eath floor. It's sitting at like, two ish at the moment.

Jamie:

We're a little over two. Yeah,

Roy:

I mean, as with every frickin artblocks drop, the more I look at it, the more I start to get attracted by it. And

Jamie:

you know, I'm pretty solidly down meaning emotionally down on it. When we talked about it. I think the the episode after drops that Yeah, still one that I definitely want. Yeah, I mean, if astronomy and stuff like that, then you I think?

Roy:

I think so too. Yeah. All right. I think we answered that. Yeah. JXMJXM, what are your thoughts on 100% on chain movement with projects like anonymice and etherorcs is being fully on chain more novelty are an important technological step forward in blockchain, in your opinion? I think it's kind of more of a novelty, rather than a technological step forward. Because it's not like it's new to be on chain. Like, there are. There have been a lot of projects now that that have been on chain. I guess if they're doing something new on chain, that's a technological step forward. So I mean, I'm not very familiar with anonymice. I know ether ox. They're advertising is like the first unchained RPG game. And I mean, that is cool. And that is really, you know, it's a novelty, but it's also like a technological step forward. So it can be both. Yeah, it's hard to know what premium the market will continue to pay on them and on this and how history will look back at it. I don't know what do you think?

Jamie:

I think there's sort of a pleasant robustness to it in terms of being able to you know, be confident that in seven years, 10 years, whatever time the nft will be, what it was when you bought it because you know, the link won't be broken essentially, is sort of the fear of the non on chain stuff. But I think it's just it's not it's not super special, like you're saying because I think there are ways to have the media be not on chain that is also quite robust. So they're, they're not really that much stronger necessarily. than the ones that aren't fully on chain but but it is nice. And you know, like you're saying the if they're doing something new on chain or they're able to have you know, some sort of arc that is not like very pixelated but find a way to interestingly hosted on chain like for instance footnotes are all on chain. Even though the art is of a style that you would think it is not going to be able to be all stored on chain or the way you know like art block stuff is all a To be generated purely with on chain data, that kind of thing is nice. But I think, you know, it's it's like number 12, or something on the reason to be interested in a particular project.

Roy:

Yeah, no, I agree with, with all of that.

Jamie:

I'm just going to go a little bit further. But I think it also, it may be matters more for a very expensive project, to make sure that it really does have that robustness. So, you know, having something that's quite cheap, I don't worry as much about the link breaking, but as the price of the NFT goes up, the more security I want in that, so I want it to be at least IFPS or our weave or on chain, something like that. But but for cheaper stuff. It's it's sort of a novelty at that point. And it would just make me feel better about continuing to hold it if price appreciated a lot. Yeah.

Roy:

Agree with all of that. Are you in many of these on chain projects, anonymice, etherorcs?

Jamie:

I'm not in either of those. But you know, I have the artblock stuff, which is largely on chain, I guess, may say, and yeah, and blipmaps and blitknots. Other than that, I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm and a couple others. Yeah, but I don't think so.

Roy:

Well, I'm excited for blipmaps, like I think the next two to three months, we're going to see some awesome stuff.

Jamie:

I should look back at what the people voted for the villains, but boy, I thought a lot of those mock ups looked great.

Roy:

Yeah, they're building that en sub drive I think is going to be really

Jamie:

I haven't paid enough attention to corruption at all. I don't I know nothing about it, basically.

Roy:

Yeah. I also know nothing about it. But anyway, we're getting a bit off topic. Let's see. Next question.

Jamie:

Bradley Matthew says would love to hear your thoughts on Ricker and Veve marketplace.

Roy:

Do you know Ricker?

Jamie:

I do not. It's Toronto's Ricker is a reference.

Roy:

Ricker was a so they dropped like a pass like a membership pass on. I think it was on Polygon a couple of weeks ago. And I think it was like if you have it, you get access to like all of our future drops. And I think that the thing was they're having they have collabs with a lot of big brands similar to Veve with like, DC and I don't know Coca Cola and the other people that they've got brands with. Got clouds with sorry. But yeah, I don't know too much about them. Um, in terms of the veve marketplace, I think I was super into it, like 6, 7, 8 months ago, when, like riot as entities were getting started. I was like, hey, you know, you were there for like every drop. Yeah, this company has these amazing, huge collabs. Look at all these partnerships they're making, but and yeah, I was trying to get in on every single drop, and then it just sort of like, I don't know, it just fizzled. More thing, like more things happened last

Jamie:

year also became tons of other NFT stuff you worry about at some point.

Roy:

Yeah. And like it wasn't like, easily, I think they've now bridged over to ImmutableX.

Jamie:

Yeah, like just four days ago or something they

Roy:

got? Yeah. I haven't really been following how that's going. But yeah, I really don't have any more thoughts on it, other than I used to be super into it. And now it's just sort of, on the periphery of what I'm aware of.

Jamie:

Yeah, it was impressive the names that they were getting partnerships with early on. The thing for me about a lot of it is, when I get an NFT, I generally want it to actually be an NFT. And those ones are a situation where the only difference between my rare SpiderMan and your rare SpiderMan is the serial number. And to me, that's sort of just a cop out. And, you know, if you're talking about sort of a utility token or an access token, that's fine. But for something like that, it just, it feels not particularly different from you know, like the legacy media that we're kind of trying to improve upon.

Roy:

It sort of goes back to the artificial scarcity thing.

Jamie:

Yeah, yeah.

Roy:

Yeah. CryptoQueen asks, How do you find trustworthy and worthwhile NFT projects early, early on before they blow up? I mean,

Jamie:

every everybody's so accessible in this space, you can talk to them To the founders of the project before mint. Yeah, you don't I mean, like you can't talk to the CEO of companies that are publicly traded with any ease whatsoever. But you can do the equivalent by just by hopping in the discourse.

Roy:

Yeah, but but like, just to go back a step it, I remember when I was first getting to the space, I didn't even know like, I wasn't on Discord. I didn't know how to find any projects. It was basically our little group chat with a few friends. And if they brought a project, I'd be like, Oh, what's this? Let's get interested in like, I didn't even know where to begin to look at projects. Look for projects. And I think Twitter is probably your best friend, just to find projects. And then from there, you do need to join discord. Like, it's just so much of the space runs in discords, chat to people network. And yeah, that's the best Twitter and discord and just, you know, get comfortable with both platforms, use them a lot, use them frequently. And eventually, just by being in the space, you will start to hear about, honestly, way too many projects. And you won't have the time to research them all. But you'll start to get a feel for ones that, you know, appeal to you and that you trust. Yeah.

Jamie:

I would also say, you know, they're asking before they blow up. That's, that's a high bar. And so much of that, to me ends up being about projects, just having like that genocide, quad that and kind of minting at the right time for the NFT community to sort of get behind it, because they're not distracted with this, or they're not feeling poor, because of the, you know, these bearish conditions or whatever. Like, there's a lot of stuff outside of the control of you, the person researching and of the team creating it, that results in a lot of these projects blowing up. So I would, I would say, just have a healthy understanding of how little control you have. And, you know, do do the work, do the research. But don't think that that's going to mean you're going to catch every good project and avoid every bad project.

Roy:

Yeah, also sort of to add on that there are there have been so many projects that have launched over the last eight months or a year, that sort of haven't, quote unquote, blown up yet, but they may still blow up. So I mean, I think it's worth researching the established projects. Finding out, you know, again, join the discord chat to the team, see if they're still around, if they're building what their plans are, what the community vibe is. And you can you can probably get into some really cool projects at reasonable price points that may still quote unquote, blow up. But, you know, if not, then perhaps the downside is sort of a little less catastrophic compared to like minting a new project where there's a lot of unknowns and really more risk involved. If a project's been around for six months, and like the floor has been relatively stable, you have a little more comfort in knowing that you're, it's less like it might be less likely to 10x overnight, but it's also probably less likely to go to zero tomorrow.

Jamie:

Yeah, yeah, you have a good chance of losing 20% over the next month, maybe if he if you're in a project that's been around a while, whereas, you know, some of these projects that they mint, and then there's some like new flood within a week, and all of a sudden it's worthless. You know, if the project's been out a while, that's, that's unlikely to happen, even if you don't have a great result of it. Yep, yep. But yeah, also just in terms of being able to research if you're looking at a project, that's there's more communication from the team, there's more people who have owned it, that you can talk to, and sort of network with and all and, and more just market data that you can kind of see how the the holders have behaved and how people looking to get in have behaved and stuff like that. That can just give you information and whether whether it's signal or noise is is unclear, but you can try and figure that out for yourself. And if it's signal you'll you'll learn something.

Roy:

So at the beginning of that response, I accidentally paused you and then unpause you like two seconds later. listeners are gonna hear a little bit of a jump, but um, we're mostly good. I think we go okay, great. That's just wanted to put that in there. So control people listening now back and going, what just happened but I was trying to save the recording because I do it every now and then in case you know, everything crashes and I accidentally hit the pause button, but yeah, okay, I think we pretty much answered that anyway.

Jamie:

Yeah. I guess I'm asking this one Danpose. says what are your thoughts on at Coolman universe collapse collection?

Roy:

Uh, I like it. I think the is really cute and appealing.

Jamie:

asked about this a couple episodes ago, I think and we and we only touched on it briefly because I didn't know anything about it. And I think you knew some but not a ton. But yeah, then ZenAcademy has partnered with them. Yeah, I'm still ignorant of it. So tell us about it.

Roy:

Alright. So it's a project by this digital artist, DannyCasal, aka Sal, I don't know how to pronounce it. But coolmancoffeedan is his is online, Monica, and he's sort of been creating digital art for 10 plus years. He's got a huge following on like Instagram and YouTube. And he makes these like, these animated videos that are sort of I think self proclaimed low quality, low effort animation. So it's not nothing fancy, but it's like cutesy and read, like these positive, uplifting messages. And he's sort of created a whole host of characters that, you know, are involved in this. He's written a book. And he's got a massive following. And then yeah, he's decided to come into the NFT space, and sort of build out his brand, just in a web3 type of way. And so he he launched his collection, like two days ago, two or three days ago, you know, 10,000, generative, based on his character that are one of his characters. Spesh, who is just very cute character definitely has some coolcat vibes. Very universally appealing. Definitely, like, you know, you say things about coolcats being grateful, like, children's books, I think, you know, these are already in a book. And there's so many, there's a lot of potential, I think, for this, this project going forward. So yeah, I mean, they've been revealed, I think they look awesome. I think that the fact that he has such an enormous following, and brand already gives him a lot of power to sort of do cool things with this project, and like, make, you know, potentially awesome connections and clubs. And he also just, like a really passionate community, like we hosted a Twitter spaces last week with with him. And they were like a bunch of people that came up to speak, who was saying things like, I've been a fan of yours for years and years been following on Instagram. So happy now to get into the NFT space and get my hands on one of these and just to follow you and talk to you. And he's just got a really cool community already. And now he's just, you know, merging, I guess that with the NFT space, so I'm very positive on the collection in the project. You know, again, any NFT project that's recently launched is risky, and who knows where it's going to be, but I think this one to me takes tons of the right boxes, because it's like an established artist established brand, cute University appealing up, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Jamie:

Pretty good distribution. I'm looking at it right now. Yeah. $5. Yeah, that's not bad at all.

Roy:

But the floor is around mint, which is actually kind of good these days. Like it used to be the you know, if the project meted out, and then like a few days later, the floor was around men, it was almost seemed a failure. But I think that was just unrealistic expectations, I guess,

Jamie:

are realistic at the time because it was just so little supply, but there's projects now, and it was only 11. Then like, you could name every product. Project, you really could tell up until like, whatever came out the block. Yeah, you could name every single one.

Roy:

There was the Arabian camels, the bored apes,

Jamie:

the goalie. The Arabian camels rebounded the other day. I don't know if you heard that.

Roy:

I had someone say that. I saw a picture saying that they saw one of those sold for like point five eth and I was like, what is happening?

Jamie:

I never got one of them. But

Roy:

me the that was before us in the bored ape yatch club. Like, yeah, the flows and was point one.

Jamie:

I thought apes got a free mint of them. I was reading. They did. They did. Yeah, you're Oh, you're saying they were before we have the apes

Roy:

before we had apes. Yeah, we got enough. Yes. Yeah. But the floor is

Jamie:

.05 could not possibly have been that high recently, right. Oh, yeah. It looks it looks like they were down at like, point oh, 4.05 for a long time. And now they're at point one. Good for them.

Roy:

Yeah. A little bit looks like on December 12. They had 281 sales. So something pumped them.

Jamie:

Like, yeah, you know what, and I think this floor sweeping thing is a genie is allowing people to kind of just make bets on stuff like this. And just yeah, in a way that it would be too tedious to do that for some of these older projects that are real cheap. Now it's easy for people to go you know what I'm going to throw two eth at this.

Roy:

Yeah, I'm actually I'm scrolling back now and looking at the activity in three days ago. One wallet looks like it looks like they got about 50 of them. Yeah. Um, where were we? Oh, yeah. Coolman universe. Uh, yeah, that's my thoughts and I guess Do you have anything to add?

Jamie:

I said my thoughts on it. It's a project that I don't know about, but alright, I'm, I'm a little bit intrigued based on what you've said.

Roy:

Cool. Luke, G. J. Potter. Have you guys noticed a pattern in when to buy after the initial hype pump of a project? For example, Mekaverse was extremely popular, is now hovering at a point seven, nine floor. Point seven on Eighth floor. Will we see a similar flow drop with CloneX in the coming weeks as the next shiny thing appears?

Jamie:

I'll answer the second part. I think no, because the mekaverse one in particular. And I think a lot of ones like that it's a lot of it is the reveal. So when you have an a project where it means and then you don't get to see yours, and then you know, nobody gets to see exactly what their NFT looks like until say a week later, when they're going to reveal everything. Basically, the market is is valuing the whole project at you know, this total price. And that price is going to include the very premium valuable ceiling pieces in the project. Okay, so then when the reveal happens, even if the market says we still agree that this whole project is worth $1 million, for instance, that is no longer equally spread amongst all the pieces. Now there's, you know, 100 of these pieces that are worth many multiples of the floor. And in order for the total project value to be the same, that means that the floor is going to have to drop a lot. And you see that happen a lot of times. And that's just sort of a base level, then you add in sort of the psychological stuff where, you know, people list at the floor and it doesn't sell immediately. And they get a little nervous and they try to undercut it and stuff like that. And you can have cascading effects. But I think the initial thing that I said there's sort of a good way to look at these unrevealed projects, and what you can often expect to happen with the prices there. And so the CloneX has already revealed. So I don't foresee that happening there.

Roy:

Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I also think that that just inherently significantly different projects like Mekaverse was very hyped up and and sort of the company behind it wasn't as established as artifact artifact, how it would be hard for them to be really exactly artifact is released plenty of successful projects that they're well known and well positioned as this big brand in the NFT space. And they just got bought out by Nike. So like, just to add to all of it. It's just such a unique case. I don't really foresee CloneX coming back down. I mean, maybe a bit but not like not crashing to anywhere near the same extent as the Meka.

Jamie:

Yeah, I mean, and then now it's got the whole Nike component. It's like, it's a very different thing. But but let's go to the beginning of the question, Have you guys noticed a pattern in when to buy after the initial hype pump of a project, I feel that a lot of these projects that pumped crazily like that, and then just kind of start falling? Excuse me, I would say Mekaverse, and on one force are the two examples that stick out most in my brain. I don't, I don't know that I ever want to really jump into those projects. Until you know, the price is just so low that it barely even matters that I'm jumping in. Because I think that they it just feels like they have lost the momentum. And when when the price appreciates that much that fast. I think it just gets a certain subset of holders and a certain expectation in them. And then when that gets dashed, I think it's just it's just a wasteland that keeps on losing value slowly over time. And now again, if I was really in these projects, I could possibly see that, you know, the communities are really thriving and active. And people really believe in it and are building on their own as well as the developers. And that would be a very different example from the outside looking in, though, I have a tough time thinking that it's, it's ever really a good job to buy after the initial hype pump of a project like that.

Roy:

Yeah, no, I agree with Yeah, with all of that. I think sort of, to a lesser extent, like we see a lot of projects that that don't get anywhere near as hyped up like multiple eth floors, but we'll get projects that they will mint out and then sort of, again, it'll be like one or two days before the reveal and maybe the floor will go from like, point or up to like point two and then real will happen and then they'll usually come back down to like around mid price maybe below maybe a bit above. I think we've been seeing that sort of pattern play out a lot. Lately, which Yeah, it's becoming kind of predictable to the extent that I think a lot of people's strategy now is to, if they can mint two or three, they'll sell one before reveal, and then quote unquote gamble with the other one. And and hope to get a rare or just want to you know, if they believe in the project long term, then they want to hold at least one but it's basically I mean, people just talk about it, there's a phrase The Post revealed dump, it's like, it's almost like a known phenomenon now. So I think in terms of patterns, that's definitely one that's quite apparent.

Jamie:

Yeah. And, you know, I would, I would say, if, if you think that the project is going to succeed, it's okay to hold through the reveal. But you have to kind of think about that thing that I said at the beginning. And know that most likely, you are going to be holding in a way that in the short term is costing you money, because you're sort of gambling on that chance that you get those really rare ones. That means you will make a ton of money. But but you know, the percentage of that is small. So if the project is going to work out great, it's it's, you know, possibly a gamble that has a positive sum, but the majority of the outcomes will be ones where you lose you know, in the short term, some of that floor value.

Roy:

Yeah, absolutely. DampBose says maybe it would be good to mention your opinion about the MathCastle collection this is another project that I don't think you know, about or not know a lot about. MathCastle. So the project is Terraforms by MathCastle, math castles. Or maybe math castles is like the big umbrella thing. And this project is aspect of it is Terraforms. I've been hearing about it for several months. I think I first heard about it in the blit map discord or somewhere. And it's a very interesting and incredibly confusing project. Like I have read a good amount of this is the one that's

Jamie:

like a little bit like loot, but for land.

Roy:

Yes, that's sort of what they said. But then also like so much more. Like they they intentionally wanted to give it like a visual aspect. So they work really hard with like a an artist studio.

Jamie:

It's an ASCII art, right?

Roy:

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like that. But it's, um, it's also like the is this a lot baked into the contract, like a lot you can do. So you buy the NFT, you get what looks like a piece of art, which is also land in this Metaverse Castle thing, but also is like a canvas. So you can like use that to create your own art. So it's already created like an X copy looking thing out of it. I'm going to describe what it says in this this, like this unofficial FAQ that someone's put together, which is basically official. What is it? Mathcastles is sorry, Terraforms is an extremely on chain or in chain NFT for math castles, many slash most NFT's have non blockchain internet dependencies. And this one runs purely on the blockchain. In short, it's a fully on chain generative 3d structure with 10,000 parcels for us to build on enjoy commercialize, etc. Yeah, it's, it's very confusing, I, it's hard for me to explain it without understanding it fully. And I don't understand it fully. But we will link this, you know, FAQ in the show notes if you're interested, because it's very interesting and intriguing to me. And if you look at some of like, the free

Jamie:

mention or approach to the, to the digital NFT land concept, you know, very, very different from, like, the Sandbox type stuff that we were talking about earlier.

Roy:

Yeah. And I think it's like, this is sort of where the loot pod comes in. It's sort of like composable, and so anyone can build on it and do whatever they want with it. But it's also you know, it is interoperable with all the other plots of land or you can go and do your own thing and yeah, it's, it's really cool. Very interesting. Clearly, a lot of work has been put into it. It's very confusing. I don't understand that. But I own a bunch and I'm excited to see where where they go. Going forward.

Jamie:

Yeah, I mean, I'm, I always appreciate any project that's trying something new and it sounds like they're certainly doing that. So so more power to him for that. Yeah. It's it's, it's it's another one of these projects that to me just sounds so out there and speculative that I rooting for them but can't can't actually get behind it with my own money. Next question is from Travelex. It says, can you talk about the progression of mental states slash sentiment and typical price movements of being part of a successful versus probably not gonna make it project? Have you spotted any patterns? I wouldn't say the number one pattern to me is that the owners of the project are excited about it.

Roy:

Yeah, I think that's, that's

Jamie:

that's the biggest thing to me that I have seen differentiate projects that that end up doing well, versus ones that don't, don't end up doing well. People are excited to be a part of the projects that end up doing well. Yeah, and they're just having fun in the discord. Yes.

Roy:

They're excited for like, they're excited, because of what the project is offering and that the future is and they're not focused on the floor price. They're not panicked about the floor price. And like, yeah, their projects, right now, where the floor price has been tanking over the last week. I'm thinking if I should name them, I'm not going to name them. But let's say this project A and project B, that I've been looking at. And they both, you know, gone down, probably 50 to 70%, in full price over the last week, just because I'd run up a bit. And in one of the discords. Literally, no one is talking about the floor price. They're just, you know, having fun, talking about the lore of the project and the future and what's going to come next and having fun. And the other one, like every fifth question, is someone asking about the floor? And like, you know, asking for utility from the devs. And what's next? And what's the next announcement and what's gonna, what news is going to cause the floor price to go up basically, is what they're asking, as opposed to just being excited for the art that they've bought the community that they've built the infrastructure that's there and all that kind of stuff. And I think that's, that's it's just very telling about sort of the meat medium to long term prospects of a project. Yeah,

Jamie:

yeah. I mean, and you will see excitement about the floors going up, if the floor is going up in a project that's successful. That's, that's a natural thing. But, you know, there's less talk about, like, how do we how do we make the floor go up? How can we, you know, like, like the kind of lazy lion's roar, rewards type stuff, or like, the really bad stuff that you sometimes see where people post, like an announcement from a discord where they said, We're going to boot you from the discord. If you list below this, like that, that is the opposite of of a pattern of, or actually, I guess they're asking for patterns. Either way, that's definitely the pattern of a project. That's not going to make it.

Roy:

Yeah, I actually, I called one of them out a few months ago on Twitter party, ape billionaire club. And, yeah, I got so many of them saying, haha, we'll show you will show you, we're gonna hit the floor, I think it was will be if you list under 1 eth. I just went and checked and the floor is like point three, eight. And it was like point six when I made that that tweet. And it's just like, you know, maybe it would have worked, but like, it's just such a big red flag and people are there for the wrong reasons. And it's like everyone is just like, at the first chance they're gonna, like, under cotton, just jump ship and get out with money before the next person. Yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah, I mean, what when they get to the floor that, you know, they're sort of hoping what that maneuver would do. They just make a new announcement and raise the floor to double that. And then that's, that's their plan for their project is to just keep making threats of fire in our floors, that you have to listen at all like that. That's not how it works.

Roy:

No, no, it's not. Alright. Stephen Miller. What are you thankful for this holiday season? What do you think people should take time to reflect on as they spend time away from the NFT's? I mean, as they spend time with their loved ones. You're whenever away from our NFTs Steven. No.

Jamie:

They are our loved ones. Yes, they are.

Roy:

I'm sorry, Rachel. Love you too. All right. What do you think? What are you thankful for Jaime?

Jamie:

What am I thankful for this holiday season? You know that? That's to me seems like more of a Thanksgiving question than a Christmas question. But how about this? I'm, I'm thankful for you, Roy?

Roy:

Oh, I'm not thankful. That's fine. God is smiting me. What am I thankful for? I am thankful for you. I'm thankful for kinda this whole year, it's been just oh my god, what a year on so many fronts. It really has just been ludicrous. And yeah, I'm just thankful for everything that has. I've been lucky enough to just find myself. Like, the situation I found myself in and the things that have just materialized around me and the communities and the people and the NFT's and the learnings and the tech and the just everything. It's just, it's been such a crazy year. I'm very thankful for just finding this space, because I feel like it's I feel like, um, what is it like? Well, yeah, I made that thread on Twitter about like, finding my iki guy, which is his Japanese word for like finding your purpose, what you're good at what the world needs and where you can make money out. And I think that's basically what I found with NFT's like, I feel like I'm in my comfort zone. And I'm very thankful for that.

Jamie:

That's, that's a very rare thing to find, I believe. I think so. Yeah, certainly something to be thankful for.

Roy:

Yeah. I mean, I really didn't think I would ever find it. I don't think much. Yeah,

Jamie:

I mean, on that note, I, and I've talked about this before, but I used to have so much enjoyment, creating art. But the combination of just the difficulty of finding the time to do stuff that you enjoy that is not necessarily easy. And doing it with watercolors, which involves like a lot of preparation and cleanup and stuff. And me finding NFT's and then getting to do it digitally, I'm really, really thankful to be able to be creating art on a regular basis again, and creating art that I really enjoy. And that was not something that I saw coming before this year, I thought I was just going to, you know, continue to do a very sparing amount of watercolor work. And always wish that I could find the time to do more. But now I'm creating a lot of art. And I'm very thankful for that. Man, and I'm getting feedback from people that I've never met before that really, really liked it. And that's that's strange, because, you know, it used to be, there was a grand total of seven people or whatever, whoever saw my art, maybe, you know, maybe 40 or 50 if I randomly put one up on Instagram and stuff like that, but there's just so many more eyeballs on it and people that are really appreciating it that that feels good, too.

Roy:

Yeah, it's, it's amazing, this whole creator economy, how to talk about

Jamie:

like, you know, like, scientists and firefighters or something like that. Those are things to be thankful for right people to make the world better. Yeah. I mean, yes. Mosquitos nets. Those are great.

Roy:

Skis. Great. Yeah.

Jamie:

So many more people would be dying of malaria if it wasn't for mosquito nets. Mm hmm. Yep. Shout out to people that are trying to make the world better. I'm thankful for them.

Roy:

Yes, shout out to everyone trying to make the world better. As opposed to us. We are.

Jamie:

Okay, hold on a second.

Roy:

Hey, we're definitely making the world more better now than when we were professional poker players because we would have nothing really like yeah, that's quite true.

Jamie:

I think. Yeah. Like,

Roy:

you know, we do a bit like we donate blood we read donate to charity, we, you know, do a little

Jamie:

Yeah, I don't think we were pieces of shit. But there is, you know, we're right this very second we're providing you know, information and entertainment to people listening to the podcast. And and it's free. So enjoy that.

Roy:

For now.

Jamie:

are always these Yeah, phrasing a real thing. People.

Roy:

Always be free. Um, oh,

Jamie:

you know what? You know what, though? It's not free. Rate us five stars we need. There. We got the cost now. Yeah, seriously, should we transition to Rated five stars?

Roy:

I mean, that was the last question that yeah, what we would love to get some five star right.

Jamie:

Yes. Spotify has just recently, very recently added the ability to rate podcast. So if you have Spotify, we would love for you to go on and rate it five stars 100%. And that helps the podcast a lot. It's so new that they're actually not having that as an option for all users. So you might not see it when you check. But go ahead.

Roy:

I actually I don't see it myself. But yeah,

Jamie:

I mean, you might have to also download the newest version of the app if you're using the app. But I've seen it on the newest version where some people Having some do not.

Roy:

But if you listen on iPhone iTunes then they definitely accept ratings. Yeah, podcasts them. Yeah, they're certainly there. It's super important to get, you know, his ratings on there actually tweeted out I think I tweeted it or I mentioned in the discord that I'll be going through when I'm selecting some people who rate it. Leave a rating just to send out a free NFT to as a thank you. Just to add a little bit of a incentive, I guess. Because, you know, it takes time and a lot of people are busy people, but we really do appreciate it. We do. Yeah,

Jamie:

this has been the fourth Twitter q&a. The full throated 21 22 21 is no 22 this has been episode 21 or 22 your listeners know for sure we do not. Do

Roy:

not hang on hang on. 22 I'm looking at that's right is it well on Spotify episode 21 Nike artifact FX hash

Jamie:

Okay, yeah, well, yeah, surprise surprise Roy's right episode 22 in the bucks.

Roy:

Alright. Take care everyone. Thank you

Intro:

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh