Two Bored Apes - NFT Podcast

Episode 24 - Twitter Q & A (5)

January 06, 2022 Two Bored Apes
Two Bored Apes - NFT Podcast
Episode 24 - Twitter Q & A (5)
Show Notes Transcript

Episode 24 of Two Bored Apes is the fifth Twitter Q & A episode. Jaime and Roy talk about what they learned from the last bull/bear market, their goals for 2022, and some of the barriers there are to mainstream adoption of NFTs. They also give some personal picks for projects that have failed to mint out, share some very brief thoughts which highlight how little they know about $MAGIC and the Treasure ecosystem, and much more.

Show Notes:

Lizard Lab
Cobie's Substack
Crypts and Caverns

Jamie:

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice

Intro:

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Jamie:

Welcome to Episode 24 of Two Bored Apes. I'm your host Jamie and I'm here with my friend and co host Roy. Roy how are you?

Roy:

I'm well I'm drinking some kombucha. I'm absolutely loving it. I'm going through a real kombucha phase. And a kombucha

Jamie:

ginger is my go to flavor. You got to go to flavor.

Roy:

Yeah. Ah, probably ginger to like I haven't had a ton of flavors, but I love anything ginger related.

Jamie:

Mm hmm. You know, that grocery store didn't have the kombucha that I liked the most last time I was there. That was kind of disappointing.

Roy:

That's a bummer.

Jamie:

Well, yeah. Should we talk about NFT's or kombucha? Oh,

Roy:

I mean, let me have a sip of my kombucha. How are you doing? Let me ask you that.

Jamie:

I'm well I don't Yeah, the chips were healthy chips, though. Not not. So it's fine. Likely story and I didn't buy the gummy bears myself. There were a Christmas present. So I will be writing a story.

Roy:

Huh? Alright, let's jump into some Twitter q&a.

Jamie:

This is Yeah, I was gonna say this is a Twitter q&a episode. For people that don't know this will be the fifth one I believe.

Roy:

Sounds about right.

Jamie:

We got a lot of questions this week. That was that a true statement?

Roy:

Yeah, we got we got like, I think it is 79 responses or 97 responses to my my tweet. Yeah. So

Jamie:

yeah. Let's, let's get started. All right. First question comes from Mike MC NFT. Mike says, Did you learn anything from the last bear market that you're using to help gauge the strength of this bull market and when it may turn?

Roy:

Yeah, I definitely learned a bunch during the bear market. I mean, any time spent in this space, I think, if you're paying attention, you're going to learn things. Um, I guess the biggest thing I learned is that it's gonna end so take take profits. It's like a lot of the, just so much of the market is built on hype, FOMO, and just rampant speculation. Like, when you really strip it down, we're dealing with JPEGs has very little in terms of like tangible value. It's hard to evaluate these things. Especially once you strip away. Yeah, if you take out the hype and speculation, you know, and think about what you're actually getting. There's not a whole lot so it can come crashing down at any point, it inevitably will come crashing down a bit at some point like it just literally cannot be Apparently so. Yeah, I guess the biggest thing for me was to take profits in terms of answering the question exactly like what have I learned to help gauge the strength of this bull and run it may turn? I guess I wouldn't be able to like necessarily point to anything specific. That is like directing my thoughts on on when it may turn like no one can know when it's gonna turn it's very difficult to time the market. Yeah, I just sort of his kind of gut feeling and instinct a bit where it's like, I've been looking at the prices of so many projects and how so many projects now have flows in like the one to five eth range, and how it doesn't seem a sustainable to me. And I still think a lot of these projects are not going to be like blue chips in the form of like doodles that has broken out Cool Cats, Bored Apes etc. But people are sort of speculating that they will be blue chips. And I think that's dangerous. Obviously, some of them will, but but the majority of them won't. So. Yep. I don't know if I answered that. What do you think, Jamie? What have you learned? Um,

Jamie:

yeah, I mean, I also guess I could say that I learned that you need to take some profits. It is it is a weird thing. Because, you know, like you were getting at earlier, we're not dealing with you know, stocks or bonds, where you can kind of just discount B for cash flows and, and you have a discount rate and you can kind of actually get real value. It's like, it's all essentially luxury goods that are you know, bought and sold as, as, you know, prized possessions rather than as income generating things. And so the price accumulation can kind of go as high as it wants and go as low as it wants without having something to really center it. Whereas, you know, if you're, again, looking at something, that's a more traditional asset, you have a better frame of reference for when it's too expensive. And when it's not, like, you know, in the last bull market for us, specifically, we were so into art blocks, but, um, you know, it's just art. So when it got to those crazy dizzying heights, there was no real reason to not be able to see it going out another three weeks of, of going up 5% 10% 15% a day. Just because, you know, $28,000 is as ridiculous as $18,000 for a piece of art, if you don't want the art, and it's as valid as $18,000 for that same piece of art, if you have the money and want that piece of art, you know what I mean? It's like, it's just very up to the buyer and seller, what they're going to value these things at. And you also, you know, again, when you go back to the other, more regular assets, you have multi billion dollar funds that can kind of backstop the falls and short the rises that get too out of whack. Whereas you have a lot less of that here. So it's just I think it's very much a personal decision about how much risk you want to take on and what your portfolio composition is starting to look like and stuff like that, as far as what you need to do. But for the most part, the main thing is I'm trying just a little bit more to take profits, like you said, than I did in the last. Although really, I basically, you know, we talked about this yesterday, but I made my one big sell of this market. So far, I sold my last Coolcat, which is crazy. It is crazy. But other than that, I haven't really sold anything during this bull market, except for some like very low priced stuff. But I guess like the art block stuff has not really recovered enough for me to be at all interested in selling almost any of it for the prices that it can currently get. So I'm mostly just doing the same thing as last time, and buying less than I used to and just kind of holding strong. Yeah,

Roy:

I haven't made any enormous sales I sold some I've been thinking along the lines of wanting to listings and sell and do more profit taking just haven't done a lot of listing or at least I hadn't until yesterday, I listed a whole bunch of world women. I think 20 points will

Jamie:

talk about the specificity of this bull market being in profile picture projects, because to me, that's where it is. And that seems sort of relevant to like when eight may turn or what I would think is what you should be learning about what to do during it. Yeah, am I wrong in that? It's it's highly focused in those areas? Um,

Roy:

I don't think so is definitely very highly focused. And I think sort of like gaming NFT's Metaverse stuff is getting caught up in it, but it's not like,

Jamie:

I mean, like those those started earlier. I

Roy:

feel Yeah, we had that bull run, like last year. Yeah. And now it is definitely sort of very much on the the profile picture projects.

Jamie:

Yeah, so like, we've talked before about how they're sort of you got your kind of punks and apes at the top and then there sort of for a long time was maybe cool cats was number two and then kind of people fighting for number three, or, or theoretically, you know, challenging cool cats, but now it feels like that, that kind of tier three, tier four. There are so many projects that have risen above the total sort of trash to, to things where like you were saying earlier that have a floor of you know, point five to two or three or four ether that a lot of people think are very legitimate. So you got the clone acts, you've got you know doodles which have broken up beyond that, but you've gotten crypto mores now you've got alien friends, you've got cool man universe. Yeah, you got the gutter cat gang. There's just so many projects. Yeah, that to me. There's just not enough of us currently buying profile picture projects to sustain all those four. So I think a lot of the projects that right now have seemingly healthy floors are going to pull back in a big way. But I do think that so much of that value is going to end up just shifting into the profile picture projects that do kind of just stand the test of time, rather than just kind of exit entirely. But but it to me, it does feel like right now there's like, you know, 15,000 people buying profile picture projects, and there's 200,000 profile picture and FTEs that have values of like over $5,000. And that just doesn't seem sustainable. Because there's just not that many people coming to NFT's per unit of time to, to buy floors that are that high, I think more will come for sure. And at a fairly high rate of speed, but for the most part, I think when they want to buy a profile picture project, they're gonna want something brand new. And, you know, that cost them the same as like, a night out on a on a Saturday night or something not. Not a nice used car. At all talk about this. Go ahead. Yeah, no,

Roy:

I was just gonna say, the way I see people coming into the new space, it's really no one new for the most part is I think buying these middling projects that either coming in at the sort of the floor level, the point oh, five 2.2, I think range and getting the first NFT there, or they're like extremely wealthy individuals, like we've seen sports players, celebrities, CEOs, were just buying these these extraordinarily expensive things like apes. Yeah, just come into mind. Yeah, and but but yeah, that money does often flow into that, where I think a lot of the money flows into these smaller projects where people who have sold for 100 eth, are now like, hey, I can just buy 100 Coolmans universes or something as

Jamie:

long exists. Yeah, that's a hell of it makes it easier. But But ultimately, I think the way that those values would sustain is if they had future people to sell them to ultimately, and I think there's too much hope that people will come in and want to buy your, your tier three or four profile picture project for three ether in, you know, in a way, in a waste time. And I'm just not so sure about that. Yeah, it's really,

Roy:

it does vary so much, depending on the project, and like what the building per se, because some of these are really, the building brands. And they're going to, they're trying to find ways to bring value back to the holders of the entities, whether it's in the form of a token or some gaming system that does now begin to add some sort of like passive income, if you want to call it that, without calling it that, or some sort of way to extract value from your, your NFT without necessarily selling it. I think the projects that figure out how to do that, well, are going to survive, but there's just too many projects. I agree. And too many of them weren't.

Jamie:

It's also interesting, too, because like, you know, maybe six months ago or whatever, when we were kind of thinking about this, it was like, the projects that were kind of, they had unique art, and they had a nice roadmap and a good community and good devs were, you know, there was like three of them or whatever. But now it really feels like a lot of these are kind of they're saying the right things, they look pleasant. They're, you know, they're using enough of the traits that we're familiar with from previous projects, while also bringing in enough of their own uniqueness to it. Like they're kind of doing all the good stuff, but they're just, again, seems like there's too many for how many people are buying them? And how many people will ultimately want to buy them in the long run.

Roy:

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of competition, even amongst the really good quality projects. Now. I guess one more thing I wanted to mention, in relation to sort of learnings from the last bear market and this one, sorry, the last bull market in this one, it's a sort of the, the market is so new and changing so frequently that it's hard to compare, like apples and apples. It's there are so many different things that are available now that won't

Jamie:

ever NFT bear tomorrow. Yeah, we're talking about hypothetically like, yeah, knows how similar it'll be to the first one.

Roy:

Yeah. And like, like you just mentioned, Genie is here as a tool to, you know, whales and institutions, even three floors, that that's probably contributing a not insignificant amount to the bullishness of the market right now. Because maybe, yeah, if someone says, Hey, I want to invest 100 eth into a collection before it was like, Alright, sit there and just click a whole lot and buttons. And then I remember actually with pudgy penguins, there was a defi whale who wanted to get a huge position in that gigantic rebirth, I think, is his Twitter profile. And he literally sent each two assistants and have them by the floor, because, yeah,

Jamie:

again, yeah. And there was also those people that were like kind of using minor extract the value to buy a bunch of punks in a single block or whatever, used to be much more difficult to do that kind of thing. We're really taking a long time on this question, but it is an interesting one and so like kind of general. But I also want to just kind of give a shout out to crypto Cobain, aka Cobis, that his recent posts have, like just really given me interesting sort of frameworks for thinking about this kind of thing. The two, I'm thinking about specifically our tokens in the attention economy, and trading the metagame, which are both recent posts of the metagame. So good. Yeah, that they're kind of just giving me ways to kind of wrap my head around what's happening and how to think about it. That's funny.

Roy:

I followed Kobe for basically since I got into the space, like, I remember very early on, he would like go on Twitch streams and like, RAID, like, RAID people, and then like, get his followers to send, like, get them to set up an email address, and then send it like, he would just send hundreds of 1000s of dollars to like, via his community to essentially randoms that they thought were like, you know, whatever, they had a talent or they deserve one of those two musicians. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and then following him on Twitter for ages, he's just always been such like an ST. Like, shit poster. He's always making funny comments, and really harsh commentary. And he just, like, doesn't give a fuck, and all that kind of stuff. And obviously, I knew that he was very successful in the space and stuff. But I did hear him like interview others, but I've never like seen his brain work, you know, in this sort of way. And it's just clear that he's just an Aruba genius at the same time. Yeah. Which is not

Jamie:

surprising. Very smart. For sure. You know?

Unknown:

Alright, we should move on. Yeah, we've we've talked a lot.

Roy:

Ali, the chain gamer says, What are your and Jamie musings goals for this year in the NFC space? And then I guess he's asking me specifically, what are your visions and Academy being five years from now? And I guess I'll add to that just what do you Jamie think of abstract today being five years from now? Because I think we can both answer that respect. Do you have goals for this year in terms of the NFT space?

Jamie:

Um, yeah, kind of, I mean, I have some art that I would definitely like to collect for too long or before it gets to a price that I don't feel at all comfortable buying it. I've talked about before, but I'm still trying to collect an autumn fragments to complete my fragments of the infinite field set. I also really want to get a Damien Hirst currency. And I kind of want to get one of the garden monoliths as well, to be honest,

Roy:

that I went they went back up, I just checked them. But yeah,

Jamie:

I'm just like, 5000 When I looked earlier today 7000 Now

Unknown:

ah, brutal.

Jamie:

But yeah, I mean, maybe that's something I'll be able to pick up when this bear market that we're thinking will come eventually does come? Although honestly, it. I could see it being that being something that doesn't fall too much. Yeah. Because so little of the bullishness right now seems to be in generative art that, you know, maybe the Grail tehsils collection of generative art will be fine. Who knows? Yeah. But yeah, I would like to kind of just further collect the NFT's that I want to own just for the sake of owning them. That's, that's kind of my main goal, I would say as far as a collector, and to you know, start to answer your other one about the five years from now thing I'd maybe I'll just stick with this year, but I definitely want to start my new project. And that that's sort of it. I was actually telling you last night, some newish ideas I had for it that I'm kind of excited about. But yeah, I'm, I'm excited to bring the next phase of it into reality. And I do think I would like to focus more of my effort on building creating my own NFT's as less of it paying specific attention to the NFT marketplace. You know, be more of a collector and creator and less of a investor. So yeah.

Roy:

So like that. Investing in yourself in effect. Yeah.

Unknown:

True. I guess. For me,

Roy:

I wouldn't say I have specific I don't really answer both questions in one could because any goals I have this year, I think a pretty tied to Zen Academy and correlated the

Jamie:

I at least ones in the NFT space, which is what all these Yes,

Roy:

yes, yes. Yes.

Unknown:

So I mean,

Roy:

I have ideas, I guess of things that I'd like to happen. I don't have specific timeframes. But I would like to get a nice website live Zen Academy, because currently there's not that maybe you have like a social media profile like a Twitter thing, but it seems maybe that's not the best idea because I already have such a huge following. Maybe I can keep But under my thing, but maybe it makes sense for to have IDs or anything I need to figure that out, but a website for it. I want to create a YouTube channel, which is, yeah, it's partially Unacademy related partially me there. Oh, it's the same thing, I guess, at the end of the day.

Unknown:

Um, and then,

Roy:

yeah, I mean, it's just sort of just continuing to find ways to build Zen Academy and provide value to everyone that's in the community that that has sort of supported me and the project and come on. And just, again, just doing cool things like building the community out, like having more community events, and just community building things that. Yeah, I'm really excited for that. All my goals are sort of centered around that. And then in terms of like, five years from now, it's just it's such such a long time, boy, in all respects, but I would hope that Zen Academy is still around then. I hope that it's a Yeah, I mean, I guess I haven't thought too much like specifically, yours crazy. Yeah. I mean, I have plans and visions for at some point in the future, having like, Zen Academy buildings in the metaverse, whatever it was, that may be wherever it is, just like places to hang out where people can go into a Metaverse and like, hang out, meet one another learn. Maybe we have classes and stuff like that just schools in the metaverse and going to be a thing as necessary. Maybe Zen Academy is one of them. I think we're well positioned to be one, if that's the direction I want to take it. I mean, I will need to think about, like in terms of how much time I want to devote to it, like work life balance. And, you know, obviously hiring other people is going to be a huge part of scaling this thing. And I need to get better at that, like, ever hired anyone in my life until several months ago, and just sort of figuring out how to delegate and scale and take it to the next level. And if I want to, you know, at the very least I think we can just continue to have an absolutely killer discord community. And we can move that into whatever medium, you know, the whole space moves into, like maybe it's not discord, maybe it's metal link, maybe it's some new VR nascent community that we don't necessarily have to have our own thing. But

Jamie:

yeah, you recently got an Oculus and are in love with.

Roy:

I absolutely love VR. So I mean, yeah, I would love to have Zen Academy in the VR, and just a place to hang out and chat with people and do things

Jamie:

and Yeah, I bet that's gonna happen faster than we think.

Roy:

I think so. It's, it's so close as well. It's like, couple years, I

Unknown:

think. Like you can already do it now.

Roy:

Some namespace you can just, I need

Jamie:

Yeah, I think that for the end of the year, something will be

Unknown:

happening. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think we answered that. Yeah. Next question comes from masa.

Jamie:

Masa has like three different names, but I'm just going to go with masa. Masa says what is your recommended setup and workflow to succeed on a super busy public sale, these flash bots RPC protect and why? Now this question sounds very much like it's for you, not for me.

Roy:

Yeah, I guess that's true, because you either do not partake in in

Jamie:

PC protected,

Roy:

I barely know what they are, I think it's sort of like a plugin or a Chrome extension or something, which you can use. So to avoid losing gas and gas bubbles, so like, it puts your transaction through and if it's like, not gonna succeed, you don't end up losing the entire amount will like not the document, but like the entire cancellation or failed transaction fee. But again, I'm not positive on that. I could, I clearly don't use it, my sort of recommended setup and workflow which is not probably ideal because I don't use this tool for like hyped launch launches is literally it's quite simple. I think it's I have blocked native open on one browser tab, which is like this website that estimates the whatever the gas price is at the time and it tells you know, what you need to put in as the priority fee and the max fee to ensure like a 99% chance of having a transaction go through I just keep one eye on that. I'm just like refreshing the page for whatever the mean is potentially a meaning from the contract if that's a possibility. And yeah, I just wait for it to go live I see what gas bikes do because the block Native website updates in pretty close to real time and then I put in a transaction that's higher than whatever the 99% amount is. And then I hope and then if I see gas spikes up even more, I'll click on it click speed up and then add a new number in and I guess one other thing I'll keep an eye on you can see in the contract like the number of like pending transactions and the number that has been minted and I'll just keep an eye on those and like if if lots of emitted if it was a pending transactions all up the gas even more, if not, I'll just chill a bit and wait and I usually have a very high success rate but obviously you have to end up you end up paying a lot of gas to to succeed in super busy public sales.

Unknown:

What's what is your worst loss in a gas war?

Jamie:

Mine would be was because I was so excited for it. So yeah, confident that I was going to success meant one and then just to end up not with one I felt like that unity and then it moon like immediately. I felt even worse

Roy:

was one for me was bright back right after we got back from the Spain and Greece holiday a few months ago. Was the time drop Time Magazine. And oh, yes, I

Jamie:

remember that. Yeah,

Roy:

I guess I mean, I was rusty. And like I felt confident, and then it just sold out really quick. And I just didn't put enough gas in. And I mean, they ran and

Jamie:

you got double burn, because you bought in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Roy:

And I'm still holding him. I mean, I believe in them long term. I think that they're going to do good things. But it's like, yeah, I definitely got double bone on that one. And that one's still stands out as a

Unknown:

Yeah, a sore point. As a solid fail. I'm trying to think if there are too many others. Don't I don't think so. Yeah, I generally only

Jamie:

ask for one. So you don't need to keep thinking. Yes. All right.

Roy:

Next question. NFT. Nolan, is there a project Do you have admired from the sideline, but have not joined yourself?

Jamie:

Right. That is an extremely famous baseball player named Nolan. Do you know who I'm talking about?

Roy:

Of course not.

Jamie:

Okay. Just checking. Nolan. What are your sports? Ryan Nolan Ryan? Okay. He's never very very famous sucks. I

Roy:

could probably name your baseball players

Unknown:

of all time. Yeah, paper. Oh, wait, maybe stream?

Roy:

Maybe three. Babe Ruth. Mickey Rooney, right?

Unknown:

You're

Roy:

a baseball player.

Jamie:

He is not. You're thinking of Mickey Mantle. I mean, Mickey a person but he's very much not approved Mickey Rooney then where? He was like a very old timey comic. Okay. Yeah, he did a very racist Asian character in Breakfast at Tiffany's like, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Well, see, I don't want to see you think you know, three. And then Mickey Rooney.

Roy:

Wait, was was Keith Hernandez actually? A baseball? Yeah,

Jamie:

he was he? Yeah, that's a it's funny

Roy:

Seinfeld knowledge.

Unknown:

There's actually one more that's alluding anyway. Uh, oh, wait, hang on. A. Michael Jordan. There we go. I think that kind of counts, I

Roy:

guess. Anyway, we got very subject very quickly. Are there any NFC projects you have admired from the sidelines, but I'm not joined?

Jamie:

Are you asking me that? Are you? What NFT Okay, um, well, I guess I just talked about a minute ago, but I do really want one of these Damien Hirst currencies and I have not yet been able to buy one. I've put in some stinker bids. I've offered loans on them and if te fi and stuff. But I just I have not yet pulled the trigger or successfully found somebody who wanted the paper hands it bad enough that I've got one. But I really want one of those. And I have not joined yet. I think that's probably the number one for me from being sort of practical, like obviously, cadenzas for a while, but that one is just so out of reach that I had to do like hypnosis therapy to just forget about my desire for it. I wish I could have thought of the word of

Unknown:

usually no one if it ends.

Jamie:

But I think if there's any, I'm trying to think if there's anything else that

Unknown:

you know, I really wanted to be a part of. I don't think so. I

Jamie:

think that's that's pretty much my answer right now. Um,

Roy:

I admire a ton of projects, but I ended up finding a way and buying into most of them, even if it's at inflated prices, I think it's the one that really stands out is the Neo Tokyo citizens by Elio trades. And Alex Becker, which is this massive project now, and you know, they minted out free if you just had to go through a lot of tasks and stuff. I remember that was sitting at like, just a few eth on for a while. And I was thinking that it's just a few. Yeah, I mean, that now it's like 50 to 78th. So it's, obviously would have been a great pickup. But yeah, I mean, I admire everything that they've built and that they're continuing to do. And it's really excellent ecosystem, and they've done a lot to provide value to the holders basically, and just do good things in the space. Um, that would be the main one. And then I guess the other minor one would be just like, some new space and decentraland land,

Unknown:

though you had any

Jamie:

of the land, which kind of seems like something else I just thought of too, is actually infinity. It's like, it's hard not to admire them for how much success they've had, you know, how, how kind of big their vision still continues to be and of course, we have never joined it. So Oh, no. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah,

Roy:

maybe maybe like I don't know, cyber Kong's Genesis, if that counts, like I have a cyber Kong VX. So I'm like kind of in that universe, but obviously the Genesis is a whole beast of its own. Yeah, some

Jamie:

of the times like when the projects get so expensive before they even become on my radar, it's like not a big deal to me. Like the by the time I knew about cyber Kong's Genesis being like a cool thing. It was already, you know, competing with punk, so I was like, forget it that's like, and, you know, that's sort of what I've done with Bonanzas now, even though I had a very legitimate chance at them, because I was aware of them when the price was reasonable. But but that Neo Tokyo is another one where like, I didn't even know about it until it was already absurdly expensive. So I can't really

Unknown:

feel that

Jamie:

sadness of not showing I mean, I guess because I have like, some semblance of like a healthy worldview or whatever, because I'm sure other people could not know about it until later and go on. How did I not know about yeah,

Unknown:

I've found a way. Good. A

Roy:

through one more out the capsule house, which I'm kicking myself for not getting into, you know, weeks ago during the bear market, because they're absolutely stunning. I love the art. I love CLI as an artist. Yeah, and now they're at like 1.5 or two eth. And, obviously, I could still buy it now. But I mean, I guess I'm just hoping that we get a dip. And I'll

Unknown:

say their app. I just looked it up,

Roy:

I guess between 1.5 and two eth. Oh, yeah. Okay, it's

Jamie:

it's 1.7 right now. Yeah. I don't really know about this. Like the name sounded familiar when you said it, but I couldn't picture it in my mind's eye. Now. I'm looking at it. And it doesn't really look familiar.

Unknown:

Yeah, I guess I totally missed this one. Yeah. There's so many projects, so many. Alright, let's move on. Um,

Jamie:

next one who asked that one? Me because I veered off to Nolan Ryan immediate? Yeah. Yeah. No, I

Unknown:

asked it. Yeah. Okay. And then I just said, Okay, go. And I asked is the previous one?

Jamie:

Oh, I get it. Yeah. So that means is this perfect. I'm firing on all cylinders here. Alex, aka mudita dot F says, What are the biggest barriers to user adoption when it comes to NFTs, with so much noise going around? How do we ensure trust for new entrants on Web? Three? That's a great question.

Roy:

It is a great question. I mean, I guess to begin with, we can't intro trust, it's just

Unknown:

like, it's

Roy:

me, I guess it depends on what you mean, by trust, I guess. But, uh, it's a very new technology still. And like, there are a lot of dangers to it at every level from from scammers.

Jamie:

So just, I'm going to just get this out there. Sort of, like, again, brass tacks, the fundamentals of crypto are that, you know, when you understand it, and it's used properly, it's designed so that you don't have to trust the other participants in it, to be able to use it.

Unknown:

And so

Jamie:

it's it's almost the wrong mentality. I think, when you're bringing somebody into to tell them oh, well, this website is a trusted entity. Yeah, you don't I mean, like, like, open c.io. For the most part, I think we can agree that we can trust it. But you don't necessarily want to convince somebody that you definitely trust open CV because then they're probably more likely to click a fake open ceiling, for instance, or buy a NFT project that is illegitimate, but is on open sea currently, and think well, it's on open sea, I was going to trust open sea, that kind of thing. So just as far as a mindset thing, I think is something to think about. Yeah, definitely.

Unknown:

I think that

Roy:

it is very difficult to go from, like, there's the web to and current world where we do trust, you know, centralized entities, and we have customer support. And we have, you know, if things go wrong, there are safety nets and things in place, whereas in the web three space, sort of like you're in full control of your destiny, basically, you own your assets you own you have the seed for AG, you have to protect that or you lose your assets is in con really good to anyone particularly like, necessarily to be like there's no refund policies. Really. There's no

Jamie:

yeah, you have to get 51% of the Ethereum hash power tacked on to your transaction, which is not practical.

Roy:

It is not a in terms of the first part of the question, what are the biggest barriers to user adoption when it comes to NFT's I think, I mean, it just education in terms of like, so many people are aware of them and hate them. Like they don't understand either they don't understand the tech or they're against them for environmental reasons or for other Reasons that let's assume

Jamie:

that he's talking about PRT. They're talking about people who want to be in NFT's though, because I feel like there's still a lot and yeah, obviously the lack of desire. Sure that's a barrier been in terms of once somebody actually wants to, I feel like there's still pretty big barriers that are worth talking about. I would say, like, for Aetherium stuff. There's the prices are just so high. Yeah, for a lot of the stuff not to mention that if you want to stuff that isn't high, the gas then becomes such a big fat. Yeah, because you go listen, if you want a good NFT, it's gonna cost you $1,000. But you can get some of these shittier ones for like, 100, right? That's still a lot, but they go, Okay, fine, like you've done well, I'm going to trust you, I'll buy this $100 one, and then they find out, it's going to cost them a $65 fee, just to buy it. And then they're going to have to maybe spend another $60 to approve using of that token trading of that token afterwards, if they ever want to sell like, all that stuff, to me is a very big barrier. Stanford.

Roy:

Yeah. 100% That's probably the biggest really like that. And just the the terrible UI UX of most of the space

Jamie:

and open sea is down so goddamn often. Yeah. And they've raised so much money, and they just cannot keep their website up. Yeah.

Roy:

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great one. And then like you say, well, you can go to Selena or tasers or arbitrary, wherever it is that that's gas is lower, but like getting funds onto those networks is not as simple. Their marketplaces are worse, in many respects, than open sea and worse UI and UX. And we just haven't got to a place where it's like a friendly and pleasant experience for a newcomer just sort of in any respect, you have to deal with, you know, high gas or just not great user experiences. And it's, it's getting better, but it's going to take time.

Unknown:

Yeah. All right.

Jamie:

I think I'm just gonna give one more, I think, you know, again, as far as people that are willing to come in, I think a lot of the ones that have kind of heard from the earlier adopters that are trying to come in, have probably very unreasonable expectations of how well it's liable to go for them and how quickly it's liable to go that well. Yeah. And so that's, that's sort of a bit of a future barrier to them sticking around.

Roy:

Yeah, so many people will have had friends that say, Hey, it's so easy to Tenex your money get in like, I bought this ape, it's not worth $100,000 You got to get into NFT's and then they realize it's just not the same it doesn't work like that, like the person who got that wealthy got very lucky, basically. Obviously, there's still tons of opportunity and if you put in the time and work but yeah,

Jamie:

we were talking about earlier just about how many of these profile picture projects have kind of really taken off goes to show you that there have been many, many more opportunities. So if you missed apes, it was okay. You could have still got gutter cats. If you miss them, you could have still got cool cat. He could have got doodles you could have got we I mean we've done this before, but the the number of opportunities is enormous. And and it seems like there continues to be new ones, but it's just not every one is going to be a hit. And the ones that are kind of seemingly hit already have pretty high. Pretty high prices for a brand new comer. Alright

Roy:

jbn let lawyer says do you think NFT's would have taken off in the way that they have if we had a bunch of smaller decentralized marketplaces with 10 to 20% Share instead of one centralized behemoth open see getting 95% plus of the market

Jamie:

I think we can just very comfortable well, I'll speak for my I think I can very confidently say no we would not. And that's I agree. I mean if there was one place to go that you could kind of search all of the F marketplace Yeah, I think was a huge deal. And obviously tons of us in the space give up and see a lot of shit because they are also flawed and not perfect and blah blah blah but if they were not around and you know that demanded or not demanding you know that much in demand and commanding it of a market position. For sure. I don't I don't think it would have been adopted this quickly and successfully.

Roy:

Yeah, I agree. I was actually thinking earlier today about how again how much we love to hate open see but again, it has made so much so many of us so much money just by you know being this centralized market leaves

Jamie:

it around for a long time to you they were getting almost no traffic. Yeah. At all.

Roy:

Yeah, I have. I can forgive them. A lot of I think, obviously, some stuff is quite unforgiveable. But yeah, they have, by and large still been this I mean, the fact that we haven't yet seen an open sea competitor is just basically telling how difficult it is created. Because if it was easy, we would have seen 100.

Jamie:

It'd be done. Yeah, they're valued at $13 billion right now. So it's like there's money to be made to do it. And so why hasn't somebody done it?

Roy:

Yeah. Summit coming up.

Unknown:

Next question,

Jamie:

Nate, how old 33 says, I love listening to your show. Jamie music is my favorite of the two, the dynamic you have is palpable. I've been trying to get friends into NFT's. But it's so hard. Can you not interrupt my reading of the question? Right, thank you. Do you have any tips? Or what my IRL normally what?

Unknown:

We kind of

Jamie:

touched on some of this. And it really do it. What we kind of touched on some of this two questions ago about what are the biggest barriers to entry and stuff like that? To me, the biggest one would be to kind of know your friend and know what they're looking to do you know what I mean? Like, do they want to shitpost on Twitter? If so, you should probably get them a profile picture project? Do

Unknown:

they like art? You know? Are they very

Jamie:

into tech? Because then you might be able to get them into generative art? Or are they a gamer, they might want some dead horses, like, the biggest thing to me is to know your audience, rather than just go, Hey, this is the stuff I'm into, and really kind of try to force that on them.

Unknown:

Yeah,

Roy:

I mean, for me, I never really tried to get my friends into it, per se. It's sort of like they all came to me and just sort of came up in conversation, you know, that I was very knee deep into NFT's. And then, you know, maybe at first they weren't that interested, but eventually that they were like, Hey, I've been hearing about NFT's all along. And they had a bunch of questions. And they they came to me, so I never really had that. But yeah, I think your point is excellent in in terms of, you're all trying to get them interested, you know, you sort of cater to their desires, and like knowing what they what they want is a huge part of it. And um, yeah, I mean, I think there's also a certain point where if you're like, just constantly trying to tell someone about like getting into NFT's, it almost works, has a reverse effect, where they're like, yes, like, this

Jamie:

person doesn't want to get into NFT's, like you got to at some point go, okay, they don't want to get into NFT's. You don't want to sound like a newly converted religious zealot who won't shut up, about, you know, how you can save their immortal soul or whatever, like, you can believe that all you want, but you have to respect other people's opinions and autonomy at some point, too.

Roy:

And if energy is going to turn out how we all think that they are, and just the whole consuming to the entire world, they will eventually come to you and be like, Hey, you just wait. Yeah, you're into NFT's I want to learn. Tell me more.

Jamie:

Yeah, yeah, I think also just a little bit more to the point about like, figuring out what they might be interested in is, I want more people to lean into the idea that NFT's are just a way to demonstrate authenticity and ownership. And you can kind of layer anything you want on top of that. So people aren't just stuck with the idea that it's a picture file. And NFT is a picture. And it's something that can be right click save, like, even there are a lot where the, the user interface or or the entirety of it is sort of just a picture, like, you know, art blocks, basically, those really are just pictures because it's art. Yeah. But, but you can be demonstrating all sorts of things. I mean, you know, Gary Vee's got this brand new thing out with that bins Friday for the for the restaurant, like, you know, just just to demonstrate to them that NFT is so general. And, and just is a way of tracking the ownership of anything in a digital and trustless way. And so, you know, they have to almost be like, you know, a full blown communist that doesn't really believe in possessions at some point to to be totally against that idea.

Roy:

Yeah. I think that makes little sense. They will come to you. Eventually. All right, sub a dyer says what makes you interested in the treasure slash magic ecosystem? Would love to hear you chat about it? I'm not sure why. But as I struggled to understand the deeper intricacies, I added this question because basically to say that I don't think we really know about it.

Jamie:

I don't know about it, you know, I don't know about

Roy:

it. I bought a bunch of NFT's in this ecosystem a couple of days ago. And so this is Ethereum layer two. Yes, arbitrium, which is a roll up solution. And I believe this collection is like the one that everyone's talking about is smol brains. It's like the perfect, like

Jamie:

pixelated Yeah, when white of some sort with a very big back of a scholar or something,

Roy:

something like that, and there's like a bunch of other NFT's in this ecosystem, which is all born out of that was all born out of the loot project from like, middle last year, they created this, this whole system where you can stake your loot for magic and treasures, which are like magic is the native token and treasures is the NFT. So

Jamie:

all magic tokens come from staking loot. Is that true?

Roy:

I think it was loot. And maybe a couple of other things that you could have staked to get them. Yeah. And now it's like, and then our grading is massive. I think cross chain marketplaces is the end goal, which I've been saying for a while, I think we will eventually lead to no cross chain marketplace aggregate as being the thing because people we're going to live in a multi chain world, people are going to have tasers and SLon. And stuff, NF T's. And it makes sense that there will be this and if it's on a layer to where gases is not an issue, then again, we're going to leave live in a world where a lot of the NFT and just general activity happens on layer twos, because gas is prohibitive on on a theorem. So um, but yeah, I don't know a ton about the ecosystem. Actually. I got this question asked a couple times when I was buying it. And I wrote a copy paste my response. Because, yeah, it says, clearly it says, honestly, I generally can't explain it. It seems like an awesome ecosystem. But I haven't taken about the time to understand it all, it'll probably take many hours of reading. But it's sort of a case of lots of smart people I know are bullish on this. And a lot of smart people are building for this. And loads of people on Twitter are talking about it. So it's probably a good thing to have some exposure to, you know, maybe I got in and I bought an awful lot of hype, so maybe I overpaid. But it seems like just an entity that's not going to disappear, and will probably be around for the duration and I just wanted some exposure to it. That that's that's the short and long of it. You know?

Jamie:

Yeah, I have nothing to add, because I don't know about it, other than the little bits I've heard from you. Alright.

Unknown:

Next question comes to us from Steve,

Jamie:

do you guys have any personal pitch for projects that have so far failed to mint out?

Roy:

I have one that immediately comes to mind is lizard lab.io. I think they launched in November. And it's like point o five min price. It's you know, a profile picture project with lizards. The art is really, really cool. I love the artist. He's a huge fan of Dota the video game and the artist has drawn a lot of Dota characters.

Unknown:

I'm gonna pull it up so I can walk. Yeah.

Roy:

The the tech behind lizard lab is really, really cool. They were one of the first maybe the first but definitely one of the first projects, you know, a couple of months ago to experiment with these optimized gas contracts. Where, by

Jamie:

the way, I'm going to stop you right here. It's lizard lab. singular.io. Not correct

Unknown:

labs. Was it lab yeah.io. The head?

Roy:

Yeah, you know, two months ago, when gas was crazy. And everyone was complaining, they had managed to optimize their contract to make it very, very cheap to mint. And it's just like, I know that the team behind it now, one of the founders in the three, three clubs, so I chatted with him. And I just know how much work and just thought is going in. It's very, it's just a really cool project. And it hasn't been set out yet. I think it should have mentioned out yet but it just hasn't had that hype and attention. And this is sort of a case of no one of those projects like we were talking about before there are so many good projects that have been a good people building and doing cool things that it doesn't necessarily mean success anymore to have that

Unknown:

going for you. Yeah,

Jamie:

that was those our last episode we were talking about that I think I don't have any specifics other than that, on FX hash when I was first browsing, I saw a lot of art that I thought looked really good and it was just from projects that had not minted out yet. So I'd say in general that marketplace there's a lot of projects that have not minted out that for the price definitely some listeners are going to have to find stuff that they that they would like to

Unknown:

you know it's four bucks it's

Jamie:

eight bucks yeah 12 bucks. I mean, some NFT's at that price are not common at all. So you know if you if you just want to collect some generative art there's there's a lot there that is not sold out. That looks appealing to me and surely would look appealing to some of our listeners as well.

Roy:

Yeah, I actually have one more I found this project last night. Crips and Kevin's I'd heard about it for a while. It the website is three P wave.com. So three P wave is the dev behind it, who created it. It's sort of like a take on loot, I guess. And these composable NFT's where you create these dungeons, all these scripts and cabins basically, that other people can then use to build upon them. And it's like picks a lot and just very basic, but it's Again, it's got a bit of traction among the on chain community. So like chain runners, blit maps, these types of projects where and loot and stuff like that these types of projects where there's just it's the full builders basically like, it's so different to the peripheral picture world, the these Andrian communities, I think I'm spending more time in them lately and loving them more and more. Yeah. So, I mean, it hasn't even come close to meeting up. And it might not meant it up like it I bought, I mentored some, just because I thought it was cool and for the potential that they might integrate with other projects that I own in the future, like, and people build on them. But yeah, it's another one that I think is a personal pick for a project that has failed to miss out.

Jamie:

Alright, so you go to two good specific options, and then one whole marketplace.

Unknown:

Full full of different options. Alright,

Roy:

so espresso says, a topic in FX hash lately has been where the artists should be able to reduce edition size for collections that have not been set out. And if there has to be incentives to set size right from the start, instead of selling big and reducing. It's tricky to set the size, right. Thoughts. Interesting. It is interesting, I haven't sort of been following this topic. I've been a bit absent from FX hash for last couple of weeks. Basically, what happened was I sent eth, a converted eth to tears like a month ago, and then committed it all put it on to my Tesla and went on a buying spree and Araneta Tez. And I guess, I mean, I don't feel like selling anything. And like I said, I feel like sending motors over. So I was just like, well, I have a bunch of cool art. I'm just gonna wait a while. Yeah,

Jamie:

but we can still answer the question. Of course. Yeah, I would say that, as we're talking about the size of a generative art collection. And I've talked about this before, but I think the variety within the algorithm is the most important thing when deciding on what the correct size will be. So it's okay to make a generative art algorithm that doesn't have a ton of variety. But I don't think you're doing anybody any favors by making a generative art project with that algorithm that has a big mint size. So right off the bat, I would, I would just kind of put that out there. But as far as sort of the specifics of changing it and whether or not you need to be incentivized right off the bat, I think you should let them reduce the addition size, when they've not melted out. As long as it's kind of made clear what the the mid size started at, and then what it was changed to, as well as maybe not allowing them to do that for the first 36 hours or whatever amount of time. So they can't just maybe, like, let their friends in and then lock it up or some bullshit like that. But as far as incentivizing the, to pick this set size, right from the start, instead of starting big and then reducing, I don't really think you need to do that so much, because the market ought to sort that out by itself, I would think if they make it too big, then it just won't sell out. And then they can reduce it to have it be of size that is reasonable for that algorithm and, and the demand for that artist, that artists work. And that's fine. And if they make it what you think is too big and it sells out, then it probably wasn't actually too big to begin with.

Roy:

Yeah, I mean, I tend to agree that, that the market do what, what it's gonna do. And I mean, I would even go as far as to say that, maybe I don't think that they should be able to reduce division size for collections on FX hash, just because it's so open, and like, artists are free to release, more or less however much they want, as far as I'm aware, like they can release very frequently. And it's sort of a case of, if they go too high, it's and it doesn't sell out, well, maybe they released a collection that the market didn't want, but that many for maybe the algorithm can handle it and that's fine. They just now have a collection that's on minted and what's but what

Jamie:

is the harm? So say they they say okay, here's my collection, there's 1000 pieces, and then it means out, or doesn't mean that rather but means 470 And then it and then it slows to an absolute trickle. What? What's the harm in letting them go? Okay, you know what, we're gonna leave it open for another 12 hours, or just we're gonna close it here. And this will be a collection of 470. What what is the harm there? I don't see it. I mean, I guess there's no real

Roy:

harm, but I also don't see what the real benefit to it is.

Jamie:

I think there's a perception thing with projects that are sold out versus not sold out. Yeah. And so I think it just kind of ends up better probably for the artist and the collectors' for the project to be ended there rather than to stay stagnant li open for for a long time, I would think. Yeah,

Roy:

I mean, I don't have a strong strong opinion on it, I think I would be fine with either way. I think ethics hash to me comes off as a platform where, I guess at the end of the day, it's um, yeah, it's very much community driven in terms of like, people curate the collections that they like, and by what they like, and then the collections that more people like, tend to do well, financially, that kind of stuff.

Jamie:

Yeah, I guess you know, what you could do, you can kind of set up the parameters at the beginning. So you go, Look, this is a collection of a maximum of 1000. And, you know, after seven days, it will, it will do a, you know, some sort of warning message or something like, I'm not exactly sure how to structure it, but some sort of way where it will allow a project to have its mint size reduced to to meet the demand, rather than exceed the demand at some point in the future, but in a way, where the rules for it are set up ahead of time. So, you know, people don't feel like oh, I was planning on making them later. And then all of a sudden, it was closed, or any of that kind of potential pain.

Roy:

Yeah. Yeah. Let's see what they do.

Jamie:

Alright, next question. Mac D 89, says, What is the psychology behind why people ate into servers, just because they say, see 50,000 Plus members, while doing very little research example, what happened to bored bunny today would be cool. To hear your perspective, I assume the base level thing is that they're thinking in terms of supply and demand. And the supply of the NFT project is whatever it is, and they're perceiving, excuse me, that 50,000 Plus members, and a Discord server is an indication of an amount of demand that's going to exceed the supply. I mean, that sounds kind of obvious to me, I guess this person's point is that people should be savvier. And realize that so many of those are bots or something like that. But, you know, the level one, I think that's what the psychology it's, it's just a base level supply and demand gap. Yeah,

Roy:

no, I agree with that.

Jamie:

I think. I mean, very early on,

Roy:

we would look at Discord server numbers as our metric that year or last year. And if a server had 4000, people would be like, Whoa, there's a lot of hype. Yeah. And 10,000 was insane. And yeah, how far we've come since then. But obviously, a lot of servers. And I

Jamie:

remember the first time I saw how many Zedd had, I was like, I couldn't I couldn't really believe it.

Roy:

There was so many wouldn't have any they have now.

Jamie:

Yeah, who knows? Who knows a million or something? Is there a maximum? Not that I'm aware of, but wouldn't surprise me if there was actually somewhere deep in the code there is, but it might exceed the human population? A lot.

Roy:

Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, I think that why is, yeah, because they think that it's a hybrid project, and they want in on it, and can make money on it. Sometimes

Jamie:

they're probably right. But I guess I'm assuming that board money today was not one of those. I didn't, I didn't actually follow that drop or anything. But based on my reading of it, I'm assuming that it didn't go that well.

Roy:

I heard a lot of like, I didn't follow it closely. But just like, stuff on my periphery where people were talking about, there's a lot of debate about whether it was a rug pool or not. Because it sort of came up out of nowhere. I think it was maybe shuttled heavily on like, tick tock, Instagram and Instagram and others. Yeah. When you knew people were just yoloing into it, expecting riches. And, I mean, I look up the full price right now, because I have no real idea of what it's at. But yeah, I suspect that these were people who thought it was an opportunity to make a good amount of money. I'm looking at it now the full price is point eight. So it sounds like okay, well, yeah. In the description. They say they have 200,000 members on Discord, which is wow, that is a lot. It's a lot.

Jamie:

What is the collection size? 5000 Yeah, so I mean, it kind of seems like it worked out the way that the level one thinking would indicate

Roy:

Yeah, but those who got in on it

Jamie:

unless the gas was so prohibitive that they're you know still underwater or something Yeah, yeah.

Roy:

I mean, it it seems just like them I'm looking at the website now.

Jamie:

Seems like an anonymous team which never good. Rarely good at the very least right rarely good. Yeah. Only six stealing absolute Star Wars references and it is still never seen Star Wars. any of them?

Roy:

I think one of my friend Essex his birthdays, we watched episode one.

Jamie:

I barely remember any of it. Yeah, that's not worth remembering. But

Roy:

it was something like saying race in the sand or something. He's all hog

Jamie:

pod race. It's called a pod rate.

Roy:

All right. All right.

Jamie:

That was Do you know? That was Do you know that that kid is Darth Vader is like, is that something that you became aware of?

Roy:

No. I have no idea. I don't even know what kid you're really referring to?

Jamie:

Well, the kid that we're following in that race, he's like six years.

Roy:

I was like nine at the time or 11 or something? Yeah. Well, I

Jamie:

was sorry that you didn't memorize the anyway. He grows up to be Darth Vader. That was the whole thing there. Yeah. Cool. Boy that movies bad. I think but actually like the ones that people think are good that Maci is with us, so well. get too upset with you. We're gonna get some hate mail. By the way. People love Star Wars.

Roy:

Yeah. Well, I've just not seen it. I don't actively hate it. You actively hate it. So direct your emails with Jamie, please

Jamie:

know I'd really did. I like to episode seven a lot, actually. Which is an unpopular opinion. But were you surprised?

Roy:

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Spider Man yet?

Jamie:

I thought very much about it. Yes. Well, I'll just let the listeners know. I saw the new Spider Man the other day. And I thought it was absolutely brilliant and loved it so goddamn much. I mean, I love almost all the MCU movies. But this one to me is is now one of my top three, I think, wow. And game, Winter Soldier and this sort of the three best in the series for me right now. Alright. Moving on to our q&a.

Roy:

We have another question.

Jamie:

I know I've got this. That's my getting back to the Twitter. You've been

Roy:

funny. Okay. I think it's my turn, don't feed wolf eth says, How can we add more accountability and vetting of teams and projects without becoming gatekeepers or centralized? Or over regulated?

Jamie:

Do you have an answer? I have an answer. Yeah, you go,

Unknown:

I'll think I think we just maybe need like, more

Jamie:

overall, people in the space that have experienced pain through NFT losses. And that will make people more discerning. And if the losses tend to be with teams that haven't been vetted and aren't accountable, that will teach the people in the space to want to have accountable vetted teams going forward when they purchase NFT's. That's, you know, I It's another one of these situations where it seems like, you know, the market has to sort of solve it its own. Yeah, no,

Roy:

I pretty much agree with that. I think, to an extent we can add, like, we have smart contracts, there's definitely more we can be doing to sort of reduce the chance of sort of teams rug pulling, you know, in that respect, where we don't necessarily have to vet them and trust them. We can trust, not knowing we trust the smart contract, we say, hey, funds are locked in a smart contract. The team doesn't have access to all of it, perhaps they get vested a certain amount. Perhaps if they reach certain mile goals, milestones voted on by a Dow or perhaps they they get a certain amount, anyone that's unhappy can refund a percentage of their upfront costs, you know, that decreases over time, as more gets unlocked. But there are so many interesting and creative things you can do with smart contracts. And I think we have not really explored them at this point. We're still so new in so many respects.

Unknown:

But yeah, you know, yeah, I'll say I'm not actually going to go on going.

Jamie:

I was gonna say I'm not actually that hopeful that it's going to be fixed because I feel like, and I'm not going to name specific names here. But there's some personalities on Twitter, that now a lot of us know have been a part of several rather unsuccessful vaguely rug pulley projects, and they continue to have big followings, and continue to be able to have new projects that sort of sell out. So it doesn't seem like people are learning the lesson. Beanie. That's one but there's others there are others. Yeah. And so I would just say that, that might have to be something that you do on an individual level. And don't worry so much about you know, other people doing it and you know, a being a collective action across the board, you're gonna have to do it yourself and, you know, maybe voice your opinion in a public way as much as you can to try and let others know your opinion. And you know, if people think that opinion is valid, they'll take it into consideration or whatever. But you know, people are going to ape into projects, people are going to, cynically ape in a project, even if they think it has no long term potential. If they think it has short term flip potential like there's there's all sorts of shit that will continue to happen even if you don't want it to. So can't you can't emotionally get too invested in in hoping that people are gonna have people be too accountable in this space, I don't think.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Roy:

Just to add, like we we refer to the space as like the Wild West a lot. And I think there'll always be some element of that just just, it's a fact of this decentralized blockchain nature where, again, we don't want to necessarily rely on centralized entities, we have to trust ourselves and our actions and take responsibility for our actions. And like, if you get burned a couple of times, you will start to learn, hey, I should vet the team or I should not listen to this, that or the other influencer on Twitter, I should do my own research, I should make my own decisions. I should, you know, hold the teams accountable, or I'm not going to give them my money, like we vote with our money. And sadly, you know, people will always get burned like you say like that there are accounts with large followings. And there are people watching projects every day who are just trying to like extract money from a just users who are naive or on familiar with how this world works. And copy

Jamie:

and paste a smart contract, get you get some fiber art and just crank out another man.

Roy:

Yeah, it's gonna keep happening for a while. But

Jamie:

do you think there's there'll be something to the idea that like, as time goes on, there will be a larger and larger backlog of legitimate projects that people can buy into. So they will feel less of a need to buy into the new stuff, because they can go, oh, you know what, like, I've never gotten into animators, they seem pretty legitimate and then haven't moved yet. Maybe I'll, you know, work my way into that community. And that hurts. That sort of thing. I hope so. It makes sense to me. And it's I feel like it's happening with me. we'll animate a specifically as well. And I've been going oh, you know what? That one kind of passed me by? Yeah. And it's, it seems like there's legitimacy to it. Maybe I'll get into there. Yeah, crypto worries is another one. Actually, that's one yesterday, are being on the sidelines for a long time?

Roy:

No, I think that we're definitely gonna see more of that just because, yeah, like, these are projects that may, they may have rented out months ago, and the team is still sticking around, they haven't robbed. There's a core community. And if they're doing cool stuff, they're a great option for newcomers and veterans alike in the space to say, hey, if I want to, you know, buy an NFT at like, point o five, 2.3. Say, or even, like, even higher, but like, instead of risking, quote, unquote, risking a new mint, we can there are tons and tons of viable options out there now. And you can you can even like join the community, you can ask questions, you can see what it's like, almost try before you buy really? Yeah.

Jamie:

Yeah, I also wish like, and it's this seems like wishful thinking.

Unknown:

But it would be nice if there was

Jamie:

like, you know, a lot of us there, there's sort of inside jokes on Twitter, where you go, Oh, we like the art, we like the cats that kind of like phrase

Unknown:

to

Jamie:

sort of mask how much of all of this is financial to a lot of participants in it. And I wish that it was more real, to where people could legitimately be getting into these projects, like, actually for the community eternity mean, rather than like thinking of the strong community being a reason that the price will go up. And I will be able to either sell this or get airdrops from it or a token from it that will make it be profitable. Like to the because, you know, again, what NFT's can be is so diverse, that some of them eventually will just have to be, you know, enjoyable experiences for people that they are buying to enjoy the experience, not to profit off of, and I wish we could have more people kind of acknowledging that right now, like, you know, art blocks is probably a good example where there's so many of us in the space that just love the art and are legitimately happy to own it for forever. But then there was this huge, huge influx of people that the art was merely a stepping stone to making money, selling that art to somebody else, not that long in the future. And it it kind of metastasized the artbox community for a long time, and to some degree still to this day. And I can barely remember where all this started. But let's see Without going in? Yeah, that's just that's something that I would like to see more of is is people appreciating the projects and the communities and the entertainment factors of or whatever, evolve this for itself.

Unknown:

Yeah, I know, I would love that. But

Roy:

yeah, I mean, I think we are starting to see a little more of it. But space is just sort of rampant with speculators and people trying to get rich quick, that it's just I think, for the foreseeable future going to be skewed towards that mentality still.

Unknown:

Yeah, definitely. I

Jamie:

agree. And I think, I think again, like the the messaging coming from people within the space, to people that haven't been in the space yet, and are maybe curious about it, so much more of what they're hearing is about how much money they or people that they know are making, rather than how much fun they're having, and how, you know, enriching the relationships they're making are or whatever in the space. You know, I think maybe as the gaming NFT's proliferate, more and more, the games get built out. If any of the games are really, like, fucking awesome and fun as hell to play. We'll we'll hopefully see more of that, you know, idealistic views of NFT's rather than just a very cynical financial view.

Roy:

Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. I was looking at the last question. And we've answered this before, but I haven't written down as different names. I've been scrolling through the Twitter post now to try and see if we made a mistake. And there is another question that we should be asking.

Jamie:

Yeah, it looks like we had this same question from Alex mudita.eth Earlier,

Roy:

Oh, I see what happened. You wrote his or one of us route, his dot F name, like his screen name, and then one of us where it is at, and one is like, I sat a event, and then it's allocated. So I could just pick another question at random and pull up the last one. Okay. There was a recent rug, Pete, X, Ma, yc. Pixel, Munich Iacob. Now, it looks to be an attempt by its community to unrig it, do you know of any project that successfully unrigged itself or even seen an attempt? I know of

Jamie:

multiple that I've at least seen attempts, I can't pick one out of my brain that I know has really done it successfully. But definitely multiple have tried.

Roy:

Yeah, the first one that comes to mind is Apemon, it's probably the first project that NFV project that got roped into and tried to unlock. I want to look them up now and see where they're at. But yeah, that was like big news for a while in the space.

Jamie:

I mean, we neither of us have heard anything from them for a long time. So I assumed on ragging has not been all that successful. So

Roy:

yeah, we'll price them a zero points or one. Yeah. I'm a bit of a bummer. But yeah, I think some people

Jamie:

were into halflings enough that they were trying to unwrap that as well. Yeah. But, um, maybe I was rude to them. But pickles. I don't think pickles actually robbed. Well, I guess not. Because it was it was just so little, little promise. Yeah. But yeah, there's definitely. I mean, that is one of the cool things about this space is that there is that potential for the communities to to make something that success even when the devs have made it not that but yeah, I can't think of specific examples of it actually succeeding yet. Yeah,

Roy:

I know, NFT the Teddy's that basically got rugged. There was some talk about community taking over. Sadly, it doesn't look like that's gotten anywhere. That one I was really bummed about that. I love that project. I

Jamie:

love those cute and textures were so so

Roy:

they basically they spent ages creating this collection like that they were launched the Genesis collection of point one, and then the floor went up to like over 1/8 And then they spent ages like really crafting this next collection sold out and then not long after I guess. They started going quiet. And then they made some vague post about health issues and no one ever heard from them again.

Jamie:

It's just about any cool one deck to get physicals of eventually to I know,

Roy:

I was really excited. I still have I made a tweet like two days ago about how it's always a shameful moment when you have to hide things in your vault account and to these NFT's, which you know, when I transferred them, they had like 1.5 V floor and now it's like a point or five maybe for the Genesis. That's it. That's probably one of my biggest that and then F links are probably called My biggest ELLs in this space, where I believed in them and yeah, just went down with the ship. Basically, I still hold a huge bag of both, but what are you gonna do? Yeah,

Jamie:

I bet you in the future as the projects become more dynamic. In interoperable, it'll be easier I think, for some of these projects to reemerge as like, for instance. You know, you make it so that earthlings are able to battle within the Mythili de gens, gaming ecosystem, that kind of thing happening more and more will, I think, allow some totally dead projects to to get some life back in them by just kind of associating with these other projects and adding to

Roy:

them. Yeah, yeah, no, I think that makes total sense. You know, they can give

Jamie:

people like a cheaper entry into more expensive ecosystems. If that ecosystem is open and interoperable enough Exactly. Yes. Other ERC 720 ones and stuff like

Roy:

that. Yeah. Hopefully we see that that would be really cool.

Jamie:

Yeah, I think we'll see some of it eventually.

Roy:

Otherwise, we have Uh hum. What does this liquid JPEGs Tao where you can just sell your quote unquote, worthless JPEGs to them, and they're gonna send you some JPEG token, which I'm very skeptical about, but I think it's meme worthy enough that it might just be a thing.

Jamie:

Yeah, it's an interesting topic. I mean, I sort of had the same idea of trying to convince people to send their shitty and FTS to like a wallet that I control basically, instead of the burn address. But I had no way of incentivizing it other than like, asking nicely in marketing. So obvious and brilliant though to just go Well, look, we have a ERC 20 called trash or whatever it says JPEGs I guess is this Yeah. I did not put enough thought into it. Think of that very simple idea.

Roy:

You know, there was trashed out as well, which I think was attempting similar thing.

Jamie:

Yeah. Now my wife is now in the room. cleaning the floor. So we're gonna hear a little bit of background noise, but luckily, that was our last so she

Roy:

she's sweeping the floor. What flourish she's sweeping.

Jamie:

She's actually not sweeping. But I'm too stupid. She's like mopping but it's not a mop. What are you doing? Exactly? She's cool. She says washing. Well, I didn't want to swear to the podcasters though. What happened? was washing the floor.

Roy:

What should we wash?

Jamie:

Okay, right. All right. Okay. He says hi.

Roy:

We almost made it to the end. Yeah, we did.

Jamie:

I thought we were gonna fare a little bit there. Um, this is that was the last question though.

Roy:

Yeah, this has been a Q&A

Jamie:

number five I think hopefully. Thanks for listening. Thanks.

Intro:

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh