Episode 26 - Twitter Q & A (6)

Jamie: 0:00

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice

Intro: 0:11

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Jamie: 0:29

Welcome to Episode 26 of Two Bored Apes. I'm your host Jamie and I'm here with my friend and co-host Roy. Roy, how are you?

Roy: 0:36

I'm good. I'm great. I'm not overly full from having a huge meal. I'm not yawning. Not not not starting the podcast. Yawning a yawn before we started. Ah, yeah, good. It's been a good day. We went sledding in the snow. That was fun.

Jamie: 0:55

I have not gone sledding in a very long time. But I used to love it so much.

Roy: 1:00

It was literally both of our first times during it. Like I say we went riding like before. No, we're from Australia. I got a

Jamie: 1:07

phone. My god it was it was unbelievably big part of my childhood and the way

Roy: 1:12

Yeah, I can imagine that being hella fun. But yeah, again, I say we went sledding, we each literally did one like sled thing from the top to the bottom because we just couldn't didn't want

Jamie: 1:23

to so I think once I describe what type of sled Do you know, can you describe what you are on?

Roy: 1:28

Basically like a kid's little tiny thing? Like wood with

Jamie: 1:33

the metal rails? No.

Roy: 1:35

No, well, yeah, we didn't go on that. So basically, we went with our friends who have like a three year old and they had one of those wood things, but the three year old was the one going down on that. And then they had these like plastic thing we like sit on it and there's a big handle in the middle.

Jamie: 1:48

So is it like hard or like inflatable? Hard like hard plastic? i Yeah, those were not my favorite. But they can work. Yeah, it was alright. And then later we'll tubes ended up just kind of being the best. Yeah, I can imagine. Oh my god so much fun. You build ramps so dangerous, and like ours will go down my neighbor's front yard. Who's right next to me. It's very steep. And at the bottom is just our road. You know, you you're going down as fast as you possibly can because it's more fun. But then you're just in the middle of a street that a car could you know,

Roy: 2:20

well. I remember during that, but we're just a skateboard. Like we just didn't have these giant driveway hills. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, how are you Jimmy?

Jamie: 2:31

I'm good. I'm good. I love sliding. I could just talk about

Roy: 2:36

we can start a podcast on call to board snowman or something.

Jamie: 2:39

And you know what? I used to read all that Calvin and Hobbes too. He used to love so yeah. Let's get into the questions though. Right. This is a Twitter q&a episode. It is a sixth one. No, we got some questions and we're gonna go through them. Yeah. And you're gonna read the first one. You said

Roy: 2:57

it by Ness dot v. How did you start out? Initial bankroll question mark. Biggest mistake and biggest lesson learned? There's a few questions packed in there.

Jamie: 3:10

Yeah. And I tricked you into reading it. So I gotta have a nice refreshing sip of water. Uh huh. Ah, here we are answering the question. We've talked about this before.

Roy: 3:22

Yeah, we've spoken about how we like got into NF T's in crypto and I start, don't think we really need

Jamie: 3:29

to interrupt too quickly. Because we the most recent time we rehash it, we're talking about having probably like November would have been the earliest we had ever really heard about and if these, but I actually thought about it. Shortly after we recorded, I was definitely aware of crypto kitties when those became Oh, right. Right. Right. I was very aware of them. But the the fact that they were just like infinitely inflationary through brilliant, whatever, made me not interested in it. And like, I didn't even bother thinking of the implications of other designs of NF T's or whatever. Because, yeah, it just seemed like a coin that was kitties or something like that. Yeah, the concept didn't hit me at the time. But as a it's just an addendum. I remember being like a. So around the time that crypto kitties came out, and like that bull run, I was playing a lot of Live Poker and in Brisbane and there was a lot of chat about a theorem at the table just because me and a few others were just, you know, very interested in and talking about it all the time. And there's one of the first steps Yeah, of people to adopt crypto,

Roy: 4:34

I think so. I have another story after that. But anyway, one of our friends or one of the players, he bought a crypto kitty for like, I don't know, one eth half an eth. And we just made fun of him nonstop for like, years. And then yeah, I mean, he he has since lost access to it like the the Ethereum wallet or whatever. He doesn't know how to get it. I doubt it.

Jamie: 4:56

Much. Yeah, if it was like a Genesis one I bet it's a ton but um

Roy: 5:00

No, it wasn't. Yeah. It was one of like 10 million crypto kitties. Oh, I don't know how many there are, but there are a lot.

Jamie: 5:08

So, but how did we start out? Let's skip that since we already did. We can.

Roy: 5:15

Yeah, we were professional poker players we got into the NFT and crypto space started last year 2021 initial bankroll. That's an interesting question. I never, I never like specifically, sort of sat down and said, alright, this amount of money is now my crypto and NF T bankroll, which is separate to my poker bankroll, which is separate to my savings. And it's sort of braided together. And I also had, like, from the 2016 2017, era, about 30 Etherium, or ether, rather, that was sitting in my ledger that I just had held all the way from, I don't know, what are the hit 2k all the way down to 100 100. And something very low. Yeah. And I guess I had enough. Like, I just had this inkling and a bit of conviction, like, it seems really cool. A theorem is probably going to be something long term, not enough conviction, or like attention at the space like by when it was 100 and whatever dollars, but um, I held it and then you know, that obviously helped kickstart the bankroll a lot. I remember early on, I was like, doing a bit of, you know, just spending the eath on NF T's and the NF T's were just not go up in value. They'll go down to not sell even at like 40% losses, and I was like really uncertain about it. I distinctly remember art blocks was, you know, a big chunk of the first NFTs I minted, and they did not, by large, do very well, especially because, you know, I was minting, I think playground was primarily where I was minting the first sort of couple of weeks. And yeah, you know, I remember thinking, Oh, am I making a mistake? Am I being dumb? Should I just have to keep the eth? Or even should I, you know, withdraw it to Fiat and just take the profits? Because, you know, I hadn't done all the time. Spent all the time researching and understanding crypto yet. But it was a nice bankroll to begin with, you say 30 eth was 1,5002,000. And then I continued to add to it from just poker, bankroll and savings, maybe to the tune of somewhere between $50,000 and$100,000. I would say in total is what I put into crypto and NFT's. Yeah. How about you?

Jamie: 7:38

Um, I had a similar situation, but with basically a lot less ether to start with. But I, I actually had more money, at the time, mostly in Bitcoin was where like, the remnants of my earlier crypto ended up. But when I started buying NF T's this year, I had like, just over to Etherium set to my wallet as my first transaction. And I kind of just went from there for a few months before I finagle maybe another I think it was like $9,000. So it was like four and a half ether worth or something like that, that I added to it once I started to really have conviction that a bunch of this stuff was was good buys. And I pretty much won

Roy: 8:27

that. Cool. And biggest mistake and biggest lesson learned.

Jamie: 8:37

For me, it's hard to say because there's sort of a difference between a results oriented mistake, right? And, and what was a genuine was mistake at the time. So with the with hindsight, there are so many individual projects where we can just go Yeah, I didn't mean to ton of these. But I don't know if that's really a fair way to assess. You know, yeah,

Roy: 9:04

I don't really go in whenever not results oriented.

Jamie: 9:08

Right. I think that too early on last year, I was I was thinking that the steam was going to run out on these new projects. Whereas in reality, people's appetites were much larger. And so I was trying to kind of transition into NF T's I really wanted to hold long term, which I think is good. But I was doing it to the detriment of continuing to grow my pile of eth, which I could use to later invest in those long term ones. So basically, it wasn't minting and flipping just enough projects. Yeah. I was trying to find that balance a little too quickly, I'd say. Yeah. Again, that's also a little bit hindsight with how well everything has gone again. Right. But there's been almost there's like no shortage of projects that continue to moon. It's so it's so easy to pick them ahead of time. But, you know, if you had said six months ago, we already, you know, is it because it was lucky, there's a bunch of projects that have come out in the last month, two months, three months, five months, every period, going back to when we started, there's multiple projects that have come out over any not that long period of time. They've done very, very well.

Roy: 10:27

Yeah. I'm trying to think of my biggest mistake. It's tough because I fortunately had such a successful year. Yeah, it's like, and I sort of just default back to thinking about like, individual projects that I

Jamie: 10:45

just maybe made a mistake in. Not like you have to think about in a world of women. Right? Yeah, you could, at the time that you were selling them as the prices were rising. It wasn't necessarily F that you needed. So now in retrospect, now that it's all the way up at nine or whatever it feels like, you know, you call that a bit state, right? Yeah, you were actually talking on the on I think it was two podcasts ago, maybe only one that the devs have cool cats messaged you ahead of time go. Dark thing. And you missed it. That was huge.

Roy: 11:16

But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of those obviously famous li the three fidenza Is I sold Fanta Wani. Ah,

Jamie: 11:24

yeah, it's never ending in this space. It really is never ending. I'm gonna what's a good one, though, that like there was a real lesson too.

Roy: 11:31

Yeah, I'm gonna say not minting V friends. Just, I guess I hadn't quite cottoned on then. To like the power of just betting on people. And especially,

Jamie: 11:45

just was interesting, because it was somebody that you already, like were a fan of. And every other project that was NF T's that you were getting into was, you know, it was it was people that you had no previous connection with, but just the way your brain was thinking about what is an NF? T? And what makes them valuable? And and how valuable can they get was very different at the time. So you missed it.

Roy: 12:10

Yeah, I mean, basically, it seemed unfathomable, unfathomable to me, and probably a lot of people that you know, an NFT, you could meant for what ended up being like point five eth. But even say, two eth could just be worth 10, in a few months. It just we hadn't really seen that happen. So the min price was just very high. To my mind, I think it was like a Dutch auction starting at two ether or something, maybe three eath. And then I just basically said, you know, I just don't have that much money and sink into one project. So I just didn't really research it that well. And yeah, I mean, I have been a fan of Gary since probably 15 years. 12 years. No, actually 15. And, but like the last several years, I hadn't really followed anything he did. I just like when I saw him pop up. I was like, Oh, that's really cool. You know, I know this guy from the past. And I like his stuff. But oh, threes for No, can't can't afford that. And then, yeah, I definitely learned a lesson after that just sort of. Yeah, something I obviously harp on about alleged betting on people and how important it is, and how much success can come from betting on the right people, I think, which I think I learned that lesson and then sort of took that investment, philosophy or thesis forward. And when I was evaluating projects, after that, I was like, thinking very much about the team. And whether there was a Gary like figure or just, you know, someone with a reputation was tied to it. And they were basically gonna do everything in their power to make the project a success. Yeah.

Jamie: 13:53

That's a good one. Huh? Our next question comes from more Dragon The third, or dragon says how do you see the looks rare versus open? See market share conflict? Do we have a responsibility as capitalists to move from open see that has refused to share their revenue streams with the NFT market? To Lux rare? What do you think, Jamie? I think before answering it, we both oughta just disclose that we have Lux that we're staking. Right?

Roy: 14:26

Right. Yeah, I was also a strategic investor. So I have a bunch that are locked up for six months vesting, but there I'm receiving rewards from them too.

Jamie: 14:38

So with that out of the way, I think it does make sense as a user to prefer the structure of looks rare. That seems kind of obvious. With the way that the trading rewards currently go. It's you're not going to get any of them unfortunately, because of how much of it how much volume you have to be generating actually get part of it. But you're still going to get the rewards from staking if you do that. But I think overall, the revenue streams for both of them is tough. Because, you know, two and a half percent was we're open to was charging. So let's rare came along, and now they're going well, we're only gonna charge two. But at the end of the day, once you have the front end and the back end for all the software, it seems like they can kind of just undercut each other until there's almost no margin left. Yeah. But as the participants, it doesn't, it doesn't seem like there's much of a reason not to be trying to do what you do on open see these days onto looks rare. Yeah, I mean, it's basically

Roy: 15:57

the same trades executed on looks rare compared to open See, you're just going to end up with more money in your pocket, if you do it and look for obviously, the just the marketplace and in UI and UX is not as maybe not as clean as open see that there's just like a bunch of features missing that we would like. But on the flip side, they're added features that are nice. I think it has a while to go before it's sort of like the go to marketplace. Definitely

Jamie: 16:27

rough around the edges. Yeah, but right now,

Roy: 16:30

like, I mean, I'm still checking open See, way more than looks rare. But I will still check looks rare. And I'll you know, contemplate buying things there. If I want to buy something I'll check both. But yeah, most of my activities still happens on open See, I should probably maybe do a bit of a better job by you know, being an active participant in looks for more than I am. But I think that it's just a great thing. Just competition is great. If anything is gonna force open see to be better.

Jamie: 17:07

Right. They add and I think they tweeted something about some improvements they were making like, yeah, seemingly out of the blue.

Roy: 17:14

Attention. Coincidentally, three days off, right. Yeah.

Jamie: 17:17

Right. And you know, the thing I'm talking about about the fees, ultimately racing to zero. That's all good for the people in the space. Buying and selling NF T's. Exactly.

Roy: 17:30

It's great for us. Yeah. Yeah. All right, next question. Emerging. See, says, How do you know when a project has hit the top and bottom? What signs do you look for in projects when buying and selling? Is it volume, floor price, Rarity, and cost? Etc? Thanks for everything.

Jamie: 17:51

You don't know that. Yeah, one thing I'll say. It's not that easy, or, or even possible to know. But I think this part of that uncertainty goes back to what we've said a lot is why it's so beneficial to have multiple, from a single project. So that way, you don't have to know it, but you can, you know, take profits without being bummed if it keeps going.

Roy: 18:19

Yeah, sell a bit. Like, basically, you just cannot know when when we're at a top or a bottom. But when prices start going sort of like parabolic and something's up 10x 20x 50x It might not be the topic can still go up another, you know, 5x from 50x, me and 250x game, but it's a pretty good sign that you're getting towards sort of a top or, you know,

Jamie: 18:47

you can also just say a little market participants to right, like, who is left to buy this and drive this price up. And who that has been like resisting selling is now getting ready to sell. You kind of in your mind, think about those sorts of things to come up with your estimation for when a project might hit the top or the bottom?

Roy: 19:10

Yeah, I think bottoms are probably easier to pick than tops, because like, there's just a hard cap zero, that's the bottom. If a project gets down to close to zero, some projects have been at literally at zero and have you know, resurface and come up to very respectable floors. But you know, as you get close to there, or just sort of as a percentage drop from the top if something comes down 90 95% But you still believe in the project. You think it's got solid fundamentals, the team is there building that's when I think you can spot really great opportunities. Whereas when prices are going up, it's just like, where does it end? Is Asia entering the market and pumping in? Billions and billions more dollars and just we're just gonna see some crazy new blow off top. Who knows but we're praying prices tanked a lot. It's like, alright, realistically, how much lower can go? In some cases literally no lower? Yeah,

Jamie: 20:08

that's that's a good point as far as how bottom is, in some sense easier. But you know, the other thing that people will point out, it doesn't matter what price you buy into an NFT. Project that right? If it goes to zero, that's a negative 100% loss, even if your cost basis was point o five, or whatever, something low, point point 05 to zero, that's still negative 100%. Yeah. But like, obviously, you can theoretically capture more of a multiplicative upside when you have something with such a cheap cost basis. And you can buy more more of them, that kind of thing.

Roy: 20:47

It does feel b ad. Hmm, I'm not going.

Jamie: 20:51

I'm just gonna say it does feel bad when you're trying to buy projects that have those real low floors, though, on the F main net. And at all, any competition for gas and you're paying equal prices for gas and the NFT. That's just it doesn't feel good trying to buy one when that is happening.

Roy: 21:08

Yeah. All right, well, what signs do we look for in projects, when buying and selling, in terms of volume, flow, price, Rarity? Kind of everything? I think it?

Jamie: 21:21

Yeah, you know, what I'll say, yeah. Um, when I have made the decision to buy something, I will be happy to look at things that are priced like, up to 20% or so above floor. And basically, consider, try to as much as possible, consider that amount of money equal to what I would be spending on a floor and really look for something that has more interesting or rare traits, or a more cohesive sort of thematic look to it, then just grabbing the closest one to the floor, like, if I'm only gonna buy one or two, I'll definitely try to do that a lot. And then I feel like if the project is really successful, you can get a lot of extra returns out of out of taking a little bit more that extra care when you pick out the

Roy: 22:14

pieces initially. Yeah, there's definitely some good buys just above law, I've sort of heard a bit described as like the sweet spot, like 20 or 30%, above low price, especially for projects where they've sort of been on the rise. And I'll say that, and these projects that people had initially listed at 2x, floor 3x floor, the now just 20% above floor, and those can be some really exceptional buys. Yeah, definitely. Um, I do look at volume, a good amount. Um, I think that it's a pretty good indicator for just sort of like sentiment. And if say volume is really slowing down on a project is sort of a sign that, you know, that there just not as many buyers, and generally, when that happens, more people want to sell and for most projects, floor is gonna drop. So if I'm doing like very active trading, I'll keep a very close eye on like the Activity tab on open sea. And then just sort of when I just noticed that gut feeling or whatever, just you can just literally see the the numbers that are coming in, and when it starts to slow down, that's kind of when I try to sell and get out. I think a lot of people will a reasonable amount of people do something similar. So then it's sort of like this game where you're playing competing against them. And it's, it's a whole beast, which do you

Jamie: 23:43

ever think about like, the big sort of round numbers and stuff as, as something that you feel confident buying right below or right above because of weird psychological things of the market? Is that is that for instance, one F or five F? Are those things that you think about at all?

Roy: 24:04

I think about them in the sense that if I'm looking at like evaluating project by full price, which I think I do, most people do, this generally just really big cell walls at round numbers. So let's say I want to sell an NFT there might be 30 of the NFT from the project listed at one eath but like one listed at point nine 5.98. So I would rather if I want to sell I would just undercut and listed just under the 1/8 mark rather than the 1/8 mark when it comes to buying um, I guess it comes down to again looking at like the thinness of the floor and you know, how many sales is going to take for the floor to really appreciate if there's like 100 listed at full price. It's going to take a while and it's going to need a lot of buyer pressure. But if the floor goes like What we see in our blocks a lot where, you know, if six sales happen, the flow goes from 1.5 to 3.8. East, then I generally feel a lot more comfortable buying. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Jamie: 25:20

Our next question comes from chesco. chesco says, In your opinion, what's the best form of community retention? And engagement, postmint? Basically, how do you keep the hype alive after min slash reveal,

Roy: 25:34

with quite a bit of difficulty, I'd say, I think most projects suffer with just from the fact that when, when they meant out and reveal happens, people are dumping the less rares and trying to lock up profit and generally go to the next profit our next project, I think the good projects, plan and have a strategy for basically for this situation and sort of have announcements ready to go to keep that hype to keep that attention to keep that interest. And sort of, you know, just just, again, keep people excited about the project and interested in, you know, we in the space, by and large, have tiny attention spans, and as so many projects, like fighting for our attention, it, you really need sort of to make a conscious, targeted effort almost as a project to keep that interest and community retention and engagement. And, you know, yeah, it can be announcements of like cool things you have planned that, like you hadn't really announced before, could be just some sort of bonus perk or rewards that you're giving back. It's sort of like the little bit longer term, like medium term after a drop. I think that's when like community building activities come into play like poker nights, trivia nights, movie nights, book clubs, things like that, like meme contests, art contests, emoji contest, you get the community engaged. And like, you need to give them a reason to come to your discord, basically, and keep them there. Alpha Channels is a huge one that's really popped off in last couple of months. Seems like every server has their own little alpha channel section. Yeah, just community building events, I think, what do you think

Jamie: 27:28

that's a, that's a good answer, I'm going to take a sort of a little bit of a different angle on it. In that, I want to talk about the amount of it that's sort of out of the control of the project, I think that, you know, unfortunately, so much of attention to new NFT projects is related to the floor price, and whether or not it is or is not going up. And that obviously does have something to do with the project itself. But there's also just situations where another project will be coming out at a similar time and just happen to garner more attention. Or maybe more likely, a bigger established project will have some sort of really big development, that'll suck up a bunch of liquidity at the same time, that kind of thing. And then, you know, obviously, you're gonna have a better chance at reinvigorating a community if the devs keep building and stuff like that. But there is a lot I feel of sort of early Genesis a quad that is out of the control of any sort of individual that determines whether or not a community will start to coalesce early. And then once you sort of have something, you can kind of do things to strengthen it. But whether or not it happens to me is is more of a ephemeral thing that has to do with so many factors that that are beyond everybody's control.

Roy: 29:07

Yeah, no, I would agree with all that too. Yeah. All right. Next question. Taylor retos says, What's your opinion on these historical NF T's that have been brought back into the main light? Is that influence a hype and manipulation? Or do you think these pre 2020 projects are a good long term play as collectibles?

Jamie: 29:30

Interesting question. I read a tweet today that was made me think better. Interestingly, it was basically anti the historical projects, which I largely would say I am just because they're sort of so many of them. Yeah, that people are going to try to sell purely for their historic value. But anyway, this tweet was basically saying, all these are almost all these very old projects that people sort of divvying up our projects that in today's terms, were ones where the devs were OG They just made NF T's. And then that was it. And now people are going well, they're very old. So I'm buying them, which there's, you know, some level of validity to, but it was an interesting way for me to think about it. Yeah. I mean,

Roy: 30:17

did they rug there in the sense that they promised something and then just fail to deliver? Or is it just sort of like the fizzle out type thing?

Jamie: 30:25

No, but I think if if a fizzle out happens quick enough. I mean, I'll call it a rug. And, yeah, definitely, there was not like, obviously, detailed roadmaps were like any of this stuff, it was all much more experimental and just kind of make it for fun, rather than when we're making an NFT project. And we hope to have a high floor price like no, none of that was even a

Roy: 30:48

thought for like any of these. Yeah, no, no making much. So

Jamie: 30:51

usually, I do have to think of it as I guess, really more of a collectible and less as like a membership to a community unless, retrospectively a community will form around them, which it seems like maybe will happen for some and won't for others.

Roy: 31:11

Yeah, I, I read something pretty interesting A while back, which has sort of shaped the way that I think about all these projects, basically, it was like pro these historical projects, saying that there's absolutely no cap on how many NFT projects there are going to be. But there's like an iron clad limit on the amount of projects that there will ever be pre 2019, pre 2018. And just as time goes on, as the market gets bigger, as more people enter the space, there are just going to be some people who are interested in collecting the earliest NF T's. And so sort of depict like, where you draw that line in the sand and say, you know, anything pre 2020 is early. That's way more projects than anything pre 2018. So the zip is, there's definitely a huge, not all historical projects are created equal. But I do think

Jamie: 32:09

supply is also very different. Yeah, out of them. So you have to you have a lot of stuff to look at.

Roy: 32:14

But I do think that it is a good long term play with these historical projects, but the first part of the question is that influenza hype and manipulation, I don't really think it's malicious manipulation, per se, I think it is a lot of influences, or certain influences hyping these up. Because they have large bags, or because their community has large bags. And yeah, for whatever reasons and sort of sort of referencing that metagame post by Kobe that we mentioned, I think in the previous episode, or the one before or maybe both, where attention tends to shift from one area to another and then that's where a lot of money flows. But then as soon as the next hot thing comes along, and something new is in the like the zeitgeist, those four prizes are very likely to tank and we've seen this before, you know, curio cards was was a big one here it cards ran up like crazy. And then they came crashing down another running up again, a lot of a lot of these have done the same. And I My prediction is the exact same thing is going to happen here, where these prices will come crashing down as the market know most of the people buying into these either don't care that much about the historical and archaeological aspect of the NF T's and are just buying because they think you know, it's pumping now they can make a quick buck when they realize, oh, hang on, I might need to wait eight years to get a truly crazy return on this. And I need the liquidity for all these other hot new projects, minting

Jamie: 33:50

projects. And that time I better sell us now and then maybe try and get it again later.

Roy: 33:54

Yeah. And I that that was me like I bought curio cards relatively early on. And then just eventually they got you know, there were a reasonable price. But and there are other things I wanted them in and I you know, I'm scrolling through my wallet like, what do I sell? What do I sell? I'll go okay, I'm the meatless listen curio cards. Um, so I would say, I think that they are a good long term play, many of them not all, maybe not all of them. But I don't really think it's a good time to be buying them because they're just getting so pumped at the moment.

Jamie: 34:27

Yeah, I'll be very curious to see in sort of curious in the, in the somewhat distant future to look at like, sort of the slope of prices because I expect there will definitely be people that want to collect them, and so will value them highly, but like, how much more valuable is like the sixth oldest project and to be versus the fifth and seventh old projects, and like the first NFT like that quantum thing. versus, you know, like, whatever the stuff on namecoin was, that was like the second ever stuff. I'll be really curious to see how all that plays out. But right now. Yeah, it's there's probably a little bit too much attention on it for it to necessarily be the ideal time to be buying it. But if you know if you were buying it months ago now might be a good time to sell some of it. Yeah. How much attention on it? Yeah, I guess I'll read the next one. I kind of thought I read that one. It doesn't matter, though. Lauren says best predictions for a project to become blue chip in 2022. That can't be a blue chip from 2021. Right. Because then it wouldn't be becoming one. Correct. So blue chip? Yeah. I mean, doodles. Like them love them or something else? We're Yeah. Not not particularly close to being a blue chip for all of 2021 I'd say until maybe some of December. And now they're like, very sort of established, so to speak. Because they have a very high floor that has not, you know, quickly crashed down.

Roy: 36:10

Yeah, that's the obvious one. I think.

Jamie: 36:12

I think that's probably the the best one. Yeah,

Roy: 36:16

I think I would agree. I think I'm trying to think of projects that have actually launched in 2022. But I don't know too many that have that. I was pretty early man. Yeah. All right. You're either. Well, the women is seeming like it might be. Yeah, that's a

Jamie: 36:35

good one to

Roy: 36:35

how to kill a couple of weeks. A fluff world is another one that has really run up in maybe the last Yeah,

Jamie: 36:46

a little bit more dynamic, too. Yeah. You know, I'd like to talk about how I'm, I'm looking for something different in projects. And that one was different enough that I in retrospect, wish I had paid attention to it and bought some. Whereas now I feel priced out, but like, they're doing sort of the profile picture project thing, but they're, they're adding music. There's it's three dimensional, there's like, some sort of weird AI component like they're, they're definitely not like a utility or like something that's different from the sort of Avatar, community project, but within that space, they're doing something different. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy: 37:31

Which more power to them. It's great. Yeah, they attempted and have pretty much now. Yeah, there's a bunch that could be but you know, we could list 20 that are in like 2.5 to 1.5 eath range. Coleman's universe, littles boss beauties, and so on and so forth.

Jamie: 37:51

Yeah, dead fellows,

Roy: 37:52

crypto dead Fellows is I would

Jamie: 37:54

say, oh, you know what, closed forgotten runes to have like, kind of rare to be very popular in their kind of segment, you have pixely CCI. We all know Shannon. Yeah. Well, that sort of thing. Yeah, I think they're on train. Alright, um, anymore? No, I think that's good.

Roy: 38:16

All right. Ashta dot eath says any thoughts on the hysterical hatred of NF T's from the gaming community? I

Jamie: 38:23

think it's a bummer. And I think it's more understandable than most people in the space want to act like it is.

Roy: 38:33

Why do you think it's understandable?

Jamie: 38:36

Um, because I think NF T's are a big technology that most people don't understand. Yeah. And most people still think it's stupid. And they're in a situation where they have their little thing. And now I feel like maybe this new technology is about to get forced on them that they don't understand. And they have also dealt with like a lot of annoying pushes towards this played a pay to win format, with microtransactions. And I think a lot of them are concerned that vanities is just a way to maybe make those microtransactions even more expensive, but tell you well, at least now you get to own it when it's already too expensive for them to play FIFA, and the fact that they can own the players that they have to buy and FIFA is not helping them when it's already too expensive to do it for the versions of the players that they don't know.

Roy: 39:36

Yeah, I think I pretty much agree with all of that. It's it's it is just so difficult to wrap your head around like again, I always go back to it but like when I first heard about it, I thought it was a scam. It's just it sounds like a scam. And if you don't take the time to you know, even if you do take the time sometimes it can be hard to wrap your head around and realize it's not a scam but especially if you don't need us sort of it's on your periphery and you hear about it, it can be like, you think it's annoying, you think it's a scam and then you keep hearing about it and you just get more and more bothered by it. You see your friends who are in the gaming community also hating on it. Maybe there's some big gaming influences who are hating on it, and it's just sort of it is understandable. Yeah, it's, that's

Jamie: 40:20

the proof is also in the pudding. Like, have any of them really been offered really great, compelling and fts. at a good price. Like, they'll they'll get one over if you offer them interesting value added and FTS, eventually, but until then, they're like, kind of right.

Roy: 40:37

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt about it, like NF t's on eath main net, that it's awful for gamers still, it's right to the point or 1% of playing with gaming entities on eath. May not at the moment, even on like polygon, it's like, Well, you got to get eath on these main net Bridgette over that's 50 bucks, or whatever it is, and

Jamie: 40:57

right, yeah, it's also like, you know, just, this is a little bit off topic. But as you're trying to onboard people to crypto, and talk about how it all it all operates like without trust, and that's what's so great about it. And like you're immediately sending them onto a bridge, which is sort of the one thing that we all kind of acknowledge right now is like, not crypto, but you have to use within crypto sort of is sort of not a good look. Yeah, not at all. And it also it's it's fucking scary for people that have not done any of this before, too.

Roy: 41:30

Yeah. I mean, even I remember the first time I was bridging eath from main net to Polygon, it like it just disappears, and he's gonna trust it. It'll turn up on the other side, after like, you know, seven to 30 minutes or whatever the time it takes is. And then it's like three hours on the way back and yeah. Understandable. I think it will change over time. Yeah,

Jamie: 41:56

I hope so. I hope so to avoid eight man dot F has our next question already. Man data says, who would win in a fight to the death between you two?

Roy: 42:10

I think you would win. Because you do as well. You are the brawn and I am the brains in this.

Jamie: 42:18

You know, it's funny, though. I was thinking about this. I definitely agree. But I also remember, this was a long time ago, but we got into a similar discussion, except over who would win in a race? Just a sprain? Oh,

Roy: 42:31

I would win that. And

Jamie: 42:33

I was like, I'm not gonna lose to Royan race and you fucking beat. Who really knows we raced. I didn't even remember this. Yeah. This was like, Did you also not know how to ride a bike for a long time? I vaguely remember. I was like in Sydney and teaching you how to ride a bike or something. Or maybe Puneet how to ride a bike. And we we did a sprint that was like from one end of a park. And you beat me by bike? Much? Yeah, I've always been bad at riding bikes. Um, yeah, I don't I don't remember if you had just gotten a bike or something?

Roy: 43:07

Well, no, I've never owned a bike. So maybe we were at like, some place where you rent them? Or? Um, I remember I

Jamie: 43:15

remember yelling to you in this race. And that I thought for sure I'd win. Well, I

Roy: 43:20

have no recollection of it. So I'll take your word for it. Yeah.

Jamie: 43:23

I had I had not been fast since I was in like, fourth grade and I guess I thought I still added or something.

Roy: 43:28

Yeah. Um, I remember in Japan, I was telling will who was our extremely athletic friend that I could beat him as well on the sprint. And we never ended up running for whatever reason. It chose not to race. I choose Yeah, anyway, yeah. You would probably win in a fight.

Jamie: 43:48

No, yeah, I've I've actually been in violent confrontations and stuff before so you used to publish or something right? Yes, I used to box in high school. And you know, um, so I think I would win as well. Are you ready for the next question?

Roy: 44:03

Sure. Mike McKay NF T. Who are your favorite follows people you follow on CT which is crypto Twitter and why it is a good question. Um,

Jamie: 44:18

it does seem like it'll make for bad podcasting though as we both go to Twitter to try and think who's good you know who I think is very smart hype hype dot F I think is

Roy: 44:28

super smart know them. Well, I mean, they did

Jamie: 44:31

the me bits exploit and got the one that they sold the prank see? Ah, though, just understands what's happening at a Yeah. And he's really really good at selling the PICO tops of like the most excited you know, projects at any given time and being just happy to move on.

Roy: 44:52

Interesting, but soloing them

Jamie: 44:55

sold like the divine robes loot for 200 and like 100 cryptoads for 200 Wherever like that kind of like really?

Roy: 45:02

Yeah. Well, I have found a new follower. Um, punk six, five to nine. I think. Just that's a great one for sure. Yeah. always comes up thought making interesting threads. Yep. Usually doesn't get drawn into the drama on Twitter usually, whatever I think, you know, I've been really liking a lot fab Darius is a really switched on solidity, Dev. And he's been doing a lot lately of like, all these air drops, he'll like analyze the contract, say I love when people do that. Is it safe? Okay, yes, it might be safe. But here's why it still might be a bad idea to men, because every transaction, there's a 4% tax. And he just I saw a tweet from earlier today. It was like a photo of a bunch of hardware wallets. Like obviously, Ledger and Tracer are the two main ones. And then there's like three others that, you know, I think one or two of them I hadn't even heard of, and he's like, I'm gonna do a really deep dive and analyze and so I think that's a great person to follow and have notifications on for.

Jamie: 46:09

That's a good one. I've actually been a little bit disappointed in my Twitter feed lately and think I need to step it up and get some more interesting follows.

Roy: 46:20

All right, well, there's one for you. I think if you're mad, yeah.

Jamie: 46:25

Oh, you know, good nine by nine by nine. Right? That's

Roy: 46:27

Oh, yeah. The SOS interesting Patrice penguins person. Yeah. Kobe. Kirby's? Yeah,

Jamie: 46:35

he just had like, hilarious more than his tweets, but his tweets, his tweets are very entertaining. But yeah, looking for like alpha or whatever. Not necessarily

Roy: 46:43

necessary. Although if you go in the comments, he's often dropping, dropping bombs. Have you recently started listening to his podcast up early, which is it's so good. I used to watch it on Twitch the Twitch stream but yeah, now it's

Jamie: 46:57

I have not but I should.

Roy: 46:58

It's it's excellent. So um, yeah. Kobe. I'm lupa phi. I like lupus. A lot. Oh, yeah. Very good. level headed. With large for the following. dum de half. Good follow. But like, doesn't tweet that often, I think but occasionally just tweets really smart things or just dropped some crazy new project, which is just so interesting. The way he builds and does things in the space is really cool. So that's Oh, I have I have one. Let me make sure I get the spelling. Right. So Daniel tenor, who is wombat, who at Swan bat, he has been posting, sort of like, daily analysis of the market W am BA, om bat swarm like wombat with with an S. Yeah. Like daily market updates, not dissimilar to what I was doing with the flow stats, but his is more like, kind of like technical analysis ways looking at trends of like, you know, he has like indexes of certain projects. And I find, I find it interesting. And he's been doing it, I think for a couple of weeks. And I find myself agreeing with what the data is saying. And yeah, it's just an interesting way to look at data. I think it's a good person to follow.

Jamie: 48:32

Um, you know who else I kind of built like, lately, the meta key founders Twitter's pretty good. dcl blogger? Oh, yeah.

Roy: 48:38

I really like him as well. Yeah, I

Jamie: 48:39

like sweets. I'm just making them out. Right.

Roy: 48:44

Yeah. So we're gonna add all these to the show notes. Yep. Yeah. All right. Um, last question, noble night. Do you expect more collabs like Nike, Nike, and added us Adidas, Adidas, audit us, or do you think most businesses will try to strong arm to steal the NFT market share when the masses adopt?

Jamie: 49:11

I think for right now, it seems like it's so helpful and foolproof for them to cooperate with some of the existing communities. I think as time goes on, and the space grows exponentially from here, and it becomes much more of a normal thing. And, you know, just digital ownership in general is just very normal to people. That will become much less necessary, but I think for a while now, people, they'll still be coming in sort of through the front door with with the, you know, an established project leading the way.

Roy: 49:50

Yeah, I tend to agree, I think it's also it's just such a great way for them to like, dip their toes in, understand a bit of it. See how the market reacts without

Jamie: 50:01

necessarily just gonna be more receptive to it, yeah, you're doing it that way. Versus like, you know, just dropping a project, because you've heard you can make some money doing it. You know, doing it in a way that's more native, or at least pretending at first, yeah, be more native to the space is just, you're gonna be received better right now.

Roy: 50:22

100%. Sort of like, as time goes on, I think that we'll see more and more of them do their own thing. But hopefully they'll sort of have dip their toes in and understand how at least the space works or how the community works, and what kind of things we like and dislike. And we'll try and do it in a web three, native Mac way. Now, of course, these giant web two corporations that are, you know, not necessarily designed to fit or even non centralized Well, yeah,

Jamie: 51:00

he's right. Yeah, Nike is not a web to Corporation. Really?

Roy: 51:03

Yeah, these are just non web three corporations, then that, yeah, their structure doesn't quite fit. And it'll be interesting to see how they attempt to, you know, fit into our world.

Jamie: 51:18

Right. And, and sort of, like, a lot of what we talk about in the space and like, are sort of trying to convey as the pros to the thing we're doing, as opposed to the cons is stuff that is a little bit like game theoretical, like, in theory, for some of this stuff, if we're right, they sort of won't be able to be as extractive as possible, because that'll just be sort of an obstacle that has gone around within the metaverse. You know, by using protocols and, and interacting with content producers and stuff like that, that are just more equitable in general, right. So, you know, in theory, if we're, if we're right about this kind of stuff, I think maybe the corporation's won't have a choice. But to do things in very sort of web three native ways. Otherwise, it just won't gain adoption. You know what I mean? Like, if you have a really shitty web two website, it doesn't really matter, necessarily, if your back end is, is good. And if the product or services you're selling is good, because like, you're not doing it, right, and people are not going to be, you know, they can't find your website. And if it looks shady and untrustworthy, you're just not going to succeed in this environment. So maybe in web three, you know, if you're not sharing with the users, and you are not composable with, with other things, you just, you just won't get used? Yeah, I think,

Roy: 52:57

yeah, we're gonna see a lot of companies sort of attempt things in a nonroad throw away and probably learn a harsh lesson that that it doesn't, it just won't work, we won't, we'll do our own thing. Basically, all the companies that do figure out a way to sort of adhere I guess, to the, the slick the ethos, I guess, of the the web three space, they'll be way more likely to succeed. And,

Jamie: 53:24

in order one specific thing that I feel like, I haven't necessarily seen happen, but I feel like will, will be kind of a company comes in and does a drop, and it sells well. And then they come a lot of money. And they think that that is now going to be an easy perpetual thing that they can just keep doing. Whereas the people who bought the initial ones are thinking like, you know, these are the Genesis and FTEs of such and such a company, and future stuff that they do in this space is going to sort of flow through these NF T's. And then quickly, the company is going to try and sort of flood the market with these things. And immediately people are going to sour on. Yeah, that company's foray into the space.

Roy: 54:10

Yeah, I can definitely see that happening. It will be interesting to see how companies because it's just such a, again, like a tenant of the crypto space, not in the entity space, sort of like for early support as a political as to be rewarded, you know, just by airdrops or by whatever it is. And if they sort of don't do that there will yeah, as you say, just be a lot of souring towards these companies

Jamie: 54:39

and just a lot of better options like yeah, again, that, you know, some of it is sentiment, but in theory, once things are really good and well established, I feel like it, it to some degree becomes not it doesn't it's not a matter of preference anymore. You know what I mean? It's just it's untenable, hopefully to do things in Ways just completely untenable in the way that you couldn't go to the grocery store now and try and go, I have milk that cost $30. Like sound like that. You can't do that.

Roy: 55:11

Yeah. I mean, we're kind of seeing a little bit with open C V looks rare, where looks rare is very much, hey, we're gonna give back the fees to the community. It's very decentralized, and open seas very much the opposite.

Jamie: 55:29

So funny, though, because, like, I hear you, and you're right, but open seats been around since like, 2017. So yeah, to that they like the lore of the VC money has made them not as OG as they really are. Because like, they were into NF T's before any of us. Yeah. Or you or the rest of our listeners, like, for sure, basically. So that's sort of an interesting thing.

Roy: 55:52

Yeah. It is crazy that they've, they've been building an NFT marketplace for four years, and just 10,000 next to their, their volume or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, it is a shame that they went the VC route. But I'm sure that they had good reasons that I'm sure that

Jamie: 56:12

I mean, the product still has a lot of good stuff going for it namely, right, Robert? Yeah, it's where all the eyeballs go. And if they could fix up some of the other stuff. And just like, maybe, I don't know, I mean, people really want back the the free, private trading. I don't know quite as much about that. Because there's just other ways for us to do that. That's, that's rather easy. But there's definitely a lot of stuff that they could do that would really make me feel better about, about their behavior.

Roy: 56:41

Yeah, I also want to how much of it is just there, like infrastructure and architecture is just not designed properly from the ground up for this level of, you know,

Jamie: 56:54

seem it seems like it was not made in a in a really forward thinking, way that was easy to be scaled up that that seems for sure. True.

Roy: 57:03

Yeah. Which is, like problematic for them.

Jamie: 57:07

Yeah. I would love to see like, just as a, for instance, the kind of things I'm talking about, like, you know, how, like, for instance manifold will help people make your own smart contracts. Like I'm not sure why they open see can't do that kind of thing at this point, too. Rather than only have the open t shirt contract. It seems like they could have they could be helping artists make their NFT projects much more like robust and stand out and not have to be on the shark contract.

Roy: 57:41

Yeah, it seems quite likely that it's like 752,000 on my to do list like that. They probably right right. There's a good idea but

Jamie: 57:50

me five different out Oh, have different preferences, like stability ought to be number one, right? Because it's still just going down to off. Yeah,

Roy: 57:58

absolutely. Which is not only just pissing off the customers, it's literally affecting their bottom line. Because they make money on people trade. So Right. Yeah, that's got to be the number one priority. And then just so much else, so many fives we put out all the time. That just need better. I've lost communication is where they lack.

Jamie: 58:23

I was gonna say like, it's It feels weird that we've heard so little even leak out of like, what's going on behind the walls there? You know, I feel like we never hear anything.

Roy: 58:34

Yeah, I think it's just because I don't really have a front facing person. Since they fired Nate bring back Nate. Yeah, but

Jamie: 58:43

why are we not hearing a non front facing person who, through the grapevine has got information that's now hitting our ears? Like, I'm not hearing any of that either? Yeah, whereas I, I feel like with how central they are to the NFT space, and how like, much of a shit show it seems like is going on like how overworked they seem like all the employees ought to be. It just it feels weird that we haven't heard that perspective, like leak out at all. But maybe there's only three people like there's just there's so swamped. Yeah, and even gossip.

Roy: 59:22

It's a good note to end on, I think.

Jamie: 59:23

Yeah. That was episode 26. I think.

Roy: 59:28

Yeah. Twitter Q and Oh, we

Jamie: 59:29

didn't think q&a. Oh, yeah, shit. q&a q&a.

Roy: 59:33

We'll do it twice. Thanks for listening everyone. Thank you. Bye, bye

Intro: 59:49

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh