Episode 27 - Creative Commons, Mistakes, and a Surprise

Jamie: 0:00

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice. On this week's episode, we talked about CCO projects. We talked about the Bored Ape Yatch Club mobile game coming out, as well as Neymar joining, we talk about the upcoming artblocks project. And then we talk about a new thing we're doing that you'll have to listen in to find out about

Intro: 0:27

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Jamie: 0:45

Welcome to Episode 27 of 2.8. I'm your host Jamie and I'm here with my friend and co host Ray. Ray. How are you?

Roy: 0:52

Pretty good. woke up from a nap. It's 5am. I just fell asleep on the couch from about 3:30 Till about 10 minutes ago, but I'm good lately.

Jamie: 1:02

Normal times to take a nap. Yeah, well, yeah, we

Roy: 1:06

didn't need to get in my whole sleep schedule again. No, we don't know how you Jamie, you just watched some fun sports.

Jamie: 1:12

Oh, my God, I am I am good and bad. Because the football game that I just watched was so excellent that I'm feeling good about that. But the team that I did not want to win one, which is a bummer. And they won because of the shitty overtime rules that I don't know a single person that thinks that those rules are good. So I'm just complaining about the NFL overtime rules on NFT podcasts.

Roy: 1:40

Do you have money on the game?

Jamie: 1:41

I did not. I did not. Okay. Was it?

Roy: 1:46

Let me know that like the whole weekend was good for Yeah,

Jamie: 1:49

it was it was excellent. It was four games this weekend. And they were all good. That's fun. And last weekend's games kind of sucked. So in comparison, a team didn't matter. So then,

Roy: 2:02

do we know who's going to the Super Bowl or there's like another playoff game?

Jamie: 2:05

There's four teams left. So there's the NFC Championship game, and AFC Championship game next week. And the winners of those tool playing the Super Bowl.

Roy: 2:14

Super Bowl. That's gonna be exciting. Like there's a lot of rumors around like, I guess we can get into that in the Bored Apes section. Like, yeah, there's something there to

Jamie: 2:21

two out of the five performers have Apes. That's fun. Yeah. All right, uh, jump into the news of the week. Yeah, sure. News of the Week. Right. The news of the week as far as I'm crashing. Oh, okay. Very nice.

Roy: 2:42

Yeah, yeah.

Jamie: 2:44

We are not fully artists. But yeah, the crypto market has crashed there. What is interesting, though, and a little bit more relevant, I guess, to this podcast is that it hasn't. It hasn't really happened in NFT. So much has it? Not insofar

Roy: 2:59

as one eth equals one eth and NFT. Prices in eth have largely held up slash in a lot of cases going up. Which Yeah, is not that surprising. Like usually when eath tanks. It's just cheaper for people to buy NFT's But uh, yeah, I

Jamie: 3:18

always feel like the NFT crowd though, like their wealth is so tied to crypto, that they don't feel like or they won't feel like they have the extra money for recreation or investing purposes to spend on NFT's when crypto goes down. But it doesn't. It doesn't seem to pan out that way very often. I think it's mostly like

Roy: 3:40

everyone else that's sort of getting into NFT's who's been sitting on the sidelines saying you know, I want to buy this NFT that I want to buy Zen Academy Genesis NFT It's yeah. 150 US dollars. Oh, hang on. Now. It's like now.

Jamie: 3:56

Yeah, yeah, there's some of that. I would love to. I mean, there's no way to know this really, but have a good just a ticker that's telling us how many new people are getting on boarded 10 FTEs. Every day, like how many people bought their first ever NFT. Today, and how many will do it tomorrow? I'm very curious how quickly the space is growing, because we have sort of vague notions. And we can look at wallets. But that's not the same as people, of course. But I am always just very curious how quickly you know, new people and new money is joining the space.

Roy: 4:31

Yeah, I'm very interested in that. It's very tough to know I

Jamie: 4:35

feel it is yeah, like we have like a what's the

Roy: 4:41

word anecdotal evidence or just like we get a sense but being in the market saying, hey, it seemed like this new people jumping in. It seems like the Asian race coming in.

Jamie: 4:49

We specifically have some anecdotal evidence our friend, Nick Hmm. Shout out to Nick is buying his first ever NFT this Saturday he told us exciting Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's written some project he found. It's

Roy: 5:03

yeah, I mean, I guess over the last six months, it's sort of been like a constant stream of like friends or friends or friends that are just sort of getting into NFT's, which is great. Like it is going. I don't say mainstream yet, like maner stream, like,

Jamie: 5:22

pretty close to mainstream in a lot of ways. I mean, there's, there's less and less places to sort of hide socially, where NFT's aren't making inroads there, or at least, that's my perspective, I co host a podcast. It's fine. I'm biased in that, but it does seem like the amount of you know, relevant figures and relevant entities in the just in the world that are getting into it is just going up so much that like, you have to be in such a weird, specific, social circle to to not have NFT's at least be adjacent to you at this point. Yeah, the very a lot of people are still resisting, sorry, sorry. Yeah, a lot of people are still resisting. But like, they're, they're getting exposed to them in more close ways, rather than just like reading articles about how ridiculous they are. It's like, oh, this person that I actually like, or this company that I am a customer of is doing more and more.

Roy: 6:31

Yeah, they're very much just everywhere now. And it's sort of a it's hard to ignore, but there's certainly a lot of people that are seeing them, and just very anti NFT. Still, it'll be interesting to see how that narrative proceeds over the year. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's

Jamie: 6:53

interesting, too. I mean, again, this is going to have have to do with my bias, I'm sure. But it seems like the arguments against NFT's haven't moved so much. Whereas the pro NFT side is sort of getting better at countering it with examples. And and just like theory, yeah, I think I would say in terms of the anti NFT argument, though, we're seeing or I'm seeing, I should say more now, is the idea that other artists art is being stolen, and minted as NFT's, whereas it used to just be more right click saving and environmental stuff now. Now I'm seeing it shift more to artists work is getting stolen and then minted.

Roy: 7:49

Yeah, that that's certainly and I mean, that that's a real problem. That, of course, of course, yeah. That there's no great, I guess solution to at the moment, other than telling these people, well, you should minute first, or file a complaint with open, see, you know, and prove that it's your work, and then the centralized entity will take it down, etc, etc.

Jamie: 8:12

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's not a very satisfactory answer, honestly, to those people. You know,

Roy: 8:19

like, I don't love that, like, yeah,

Jamie: 8:21

yeah. But we're also not necessarily complaining about it as a counter to why NFT should be, you know, the other thing is, like, those complaints are valid, but it also, to me seems a little bit like the, like the money laundering types of things where it's like, money laundering existed long before this, and like, those same artists will complain, I'm sure, I've seen it, but you know, like, things like red bubble and Zazzle. I don't know if you know what those are, but just like these websites that will print whatever on a mug or a shirt and send it to you. Like, or Etsy is another one, basically, tons and tons of people do the exact same thing there and just steal other people's artwork, and then just put it on something and sell it to you. That that that's a very common thing. So again, you know, in a lot of ways, that is just more a problem with human nature, and, and sort of not respecting intellectual property of people who don't have like, the legal ability to fight back against it. And, you know, unfortunately, NFT's are another way that people with you know, that level of morality can use. Yeah,

Roy: 9:41

it's it's not a new thing. Artists having their work stolen is not new. There's even people taking the Bored Apes and selling merch. Yeah. Obviously against you know, without any sort of copyright and stuff. It's gonna happen. It's, um, I guess NFT's sort of give the ability for people to just have that provenance and say, Hey, this is actually mine. Yeah, I mean, in an ideal world artists, all artists will have the ability to sort of prove that their work is theirs, they'll see the benefit in minting their work as NFTS, even if they don't sell their work, which, you know, a lot of, I've seen a lot of sort of the anti NFT crowd say, Hey, I just create, I don't want to sell it, like, photographers showing their work to people and that person saying, Hey, you can print these and then sell them for like, 50k. And the photographer might be like, that's not what I want. I didn't get into the money, I just, you know, it's my personal thing. But I think if, if slash when we get to a point that it's just like one click to mint, there's no gas, or it's insignificant gas amounts. And it's how has this just provenance and his record, so that in the event that someone else besides to monetize your work, you have like provable evidence that it is your work? Beyond like, whatever current evidence you might have, which, you know, people can obviously prove that their work is theirs, but it's probably a little more difficult

Jamie: 11:12

than I and especially with the digital stuff, um, the way that you prove it, is oftentimes right now, I think, in the hands of centralized entities that can essentially just delete that entry from a database at some point, which is, you know, not something you would ever really expect to happen. Until it does, of course, you know, that's, that's sort of the point of the decentralization is that you're, you're, you're guarding against edge cases that you would hope wouldn't happen. But just on the same sort of note about, you know, art being stolen and NFTs, and the pros and cons. You know, we've also seen some nice heartening examples of sort of the exact opposite thing happening with NFT's like I don't know, if you have seen this, it's a photograph, I think, from Maui or, or one of the Hawaiian Islands, and it's called the the most stolen photo in history. Are you familiar with, basically, a photographer took a photo, and it's, you know, beautiful, it's like a road in a very lush, green setting, that, again, I believe, is in Hawaii, and it's just been stolen and reposted by one zillion people on all the social media isn't all that crap. And, eventually, and this was actually pretty recently, maybe three months ago or something, the photographer then sold the original, essentially, I mean, the copies of the same or whatever, but sold it as an NFT. And then also basically, CCO'd. So someone, a collector was willing to basically pay them, you know, some amount of money for the, for this work that had already been stolen and distributed a ton. And also to Now basically, say, Everybody who's doing that is now above board, because I have made it right with the individual artists who, who actually created this thing that you've all been stealing. And that's, like, awesome to me. And again, it's not, you know, it's it's sort of a bummer, in some sense, maybe that the artists had to do that, to have any sort of compensation for, you know, all the money in traffic or whatever the other people were able to gain by just copying it. But it is a solution. And theoretically, in the future, as you're talking about, like gasless, minting and things of that nature, it'll just be more easy to have the theoretically the, the web three Internet will be able to recognize and like, you know, basically scan an image and then kind of sort of the way a reverse Google Image Search works, but also kind of pinging the blockchain, to see when that image was first minted stuff like that, and have a more appropriate way, almost in the way that we have sort of the royalties for sales. You could have something that's like a microscopic royalty for, for sharing. Yeah,

Roy: 14:12

I mean, that's a really cool story. We've gotten so off topic, but I want to maybe continue like I'm going through this sort of real love for CCO. Things at the moment. I've seen

Jamie: 14:22

you've been tweeting about it a bit more lately. It is such an interesting concept. What about it? Have you been loving lately? Just sort of like the,

Roy: 14:31

I guess, seeing more projects, embrace it, and more like community created derivatives that are just great and cool. And I really think that it's so early still for so much of this, but people are obviously so much more willing to create a derivative project and expand on the lore and the universe building of something like say, a bulletin. map a chain runners, MF is vert, Atos. versus say a, say a board a yacht club, someone who's not an ape owner, it's very difficult for them to expand on the eight universe. Obviously, if you're an ape owner, you can use your ape. And if you're not an ape, and you can go to a bunch of apes and ask to use their apes, but even then you can't expand, you can't use the ape logo, you can't necessarily use the Yacht Club image that's on the website, you can

Jamie: 15:27

you can use the just sorry, but this is a thing that a lot of people in the community care about a lot, is you can use the ape logo if you have it on your actual app. So that's why there's like such a premium for all the merchants. They contain the logo on it. And so that gives you a little sneak Yeah, do it yourself. And, you know, the people that are really into the IP of it, and all really feel like that's super valuable. And they may be right.

Roy: 15:54

Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't know that. But anyway, yeah. So like, for non ape owners, it's very difficult for them to, you know, even want to get involved with the universe. But for things like a, again, all the CCO projects, if you're a builder, if you're your creator, you can get involved. And let's say you're just a fan of that project, but maybe you can't afford the NFT. And maybe you can't afford like the derivative of the like the you know, the the mutant version, like blit notes, or whatever it is expensive to get in. But if you're a creator, you can jump in, you can be part of the community in a very real way, aside from just being a fan, you can add to the community

Jamie: 16:35

in a way you like, yes, exactly. Because you can you can definitely add to the ape community, but you have to be like, Hey, I'm like a derivative artist, does anybody want me like that kind of thing. Whereas, you know, with nouns, which is another sort of good example, in my mind, because those specifically are so expensive and prohibitive again, in in a very similar way that an ape is, but again, with them being CCO, you don't need anybody's permission to do anything you want with them. Yeah, she's Interesting. Yeah,

Roy: 17:07

this is very cool and exciting to me. And I think we're gonna see, I guess, sort of like, the bigger, just a bigger reason for my being sort of such a fan of it lately is I'm sort of seeing and realizing the power of like, world building, storytelling and law of projects and brands, I guess, and how important that is to really build these into really enormous brands and brands that you know, resonate on. Just a deeper level with people like it is one thing for it to be a JPEG, it's another thing for it to be part of this entire universe where there's, like, everyone talks about comics and TV shows and books and merchants off. But it doesn't even have to be that far. It just has to be like, ingrained into the NFTs and the universe, from whatever level just some backstory and like people, like stories, we like stories. And again, like world builders and storytellers can much more easily feel like they want to add and build and expand upon the world for CCO projects than crypto punks is one of the least. Right? Well, examples. Yeah.

Jamie: 18:16

It also to me seems like it, it is sort of a natural extension of, of what people sort of claim or trying to do within ndS in a way like to AR if you've ever sort of read this specific explanation, but where people are talking about how the scarcity of art traditionally was tied to the ability to observe the art as well as own the art, whereas now we've sort of detached the signature that represents the ownership with the Ebell ability to distribute and share and observe the art. And so the the way, were sort of theoretically sort of democratizing the access to the art. You're just sort of taking that up next level when when you do CCO stuff, by allowing everybody also to build on top of it or with it. Yeah.

Roy: 19:17

And yeah, it's sort of like, Yeah, I mean, one of the arguments against NFT's that all people have is sort of like we're

Jamie: 19:26

applying like, artificial scarcity.

Roy: 19:29

That's the word Yeah, artificial scarcity to digital images, which have up until now basically been infinitely reproducible. And one of the benefits of digital assets or digital things is that they are infinitely more or less infinitely reproducible and do if someone wants to appreciate an image, they can just have it right click save it, literally make it the desktop background, and it's like, cool. Yeah, nobody's stopping you from doing exactly and no one's stopping you from doing that with NF T's either. but it's just the yeah, there is a Scottsdale, so

Jamie: 20:04

we're talking about

Roy: 20:09

with any image. Yeah. But yeah, I think that having everything, I mean, I don't think everything needs to be or should be DCO there's a lot of benefits and reasons for things not to be although

Jamie: 20:22

I am starting to think that it may be

Roy: 20:25

should be the end goal of most projects, like I think if you if you have a vision for a project, and a like, let's like take cool cats as an example, it's very clear that they like they want to be a kid friendly, family friendly project cute. I remember a project was a thinking of partnering with them. And Coolcat said, No, your project, your some of your trades have guns, and we just don't want anything like that associated cool cats. And I know the littles actually had to change their name to the littles because they were going to party with cool cats, and they didn't like the original name. So it's very clear that the cool cats is very cognizant of like their universe and who they associate with. And obviously, they want to control the puppets copyrights just to ensure that anything created is within that vision. But I could see it making sense that projects start out this way and say, Hey, after five years, you know, we're going to create this brand in our vision. But eventually, the end goal is for it to be decentralized, and CCOs, the community can then take it in whatever direction they want. Because at the end of the day, you can't stop people taking a cool cat image and going into Photoshop and you know, making whatever like shooting school or something like people can create a and that's never going to stop. Um, I don't know where I think that, but but there is, there is

Jamie: 21:57

a difference between allowing the people to do that, and allowing them to do that and then like, monetize it and say, Hey, this is as officially cool cats as anything, because it's CCO like it does to me. I agree with you that CCO is great for a lot of things. But I would say like, it does make sense to me for something like cool cats to to never do it. But it will be interesting, like, say something like bitmaps or nouns, for instance, that already is CCO. And that is like very deeply entrenched in in that ethos or whatever. Like the concept of performance artists, or like, you know, this is an exaggeration of a word, but like terrorists, just trying to give it a bad name, by using the CCO nature of it to put all sorts of like, hateful imagery with it, or, you know, God forbid pedophilia, or whatever, like just anything terrible that you can now like, associate with it. But because they're just giving those rights out, it'll be sort of interesting to see if anybody you know, is the Joker enough in that they just want to see the world burn? Well, they'll go like, I'm going to try to take down these projects, by utilizing what they are giving all of us in that ability to just do whatever we want with it with the original IP. Yeah,

Roy: 23:34

it is, it's going to be very interesting to see how it all unfolds. Because there is for sure going to be people who decide to be a bit Joker ish, maybe not, like full on vendetta against a project to write, you know, launch a crusade against them, but just for whatever reasons, boredom memes, just, yeah, I

Jamie: 23:54

mean, like, yeah, we have obviously seen a lot of like, vitriolic anger from anti NFT people. So then, maybe when they find out about CCO stuff, they'll, you know, some of them will, although it is interesting, because, like, in theory, a lot of their arguments would be probably least true when dealing with a CCO project. Yeah, but those are the ones that will allow them to, you know, do their performative anger in in the most, you know, whatever legal or profitable way. Yeah. That's gonna be an interesting decade. That's for sure. Yeah. This was our news of the week segment about crypto crash. We didn't really talk about it. Did we know crypto coins went down a lot and then if these didn't so much, near the end, it's not that interesting, but it was such a big pullback that it was definitely relevant. Yeah, it went down

Roy: 24:54

a lot from like

Jamie: 24:55

50% from the peaks on on the Bitcoins. like 33% very recent.

Roy: 25:03

Yeah, pretty much and

Jamie: 25:06

a lot of people are spooked

Roy: 25:08

outside of the NFT. Market. I think even within the end of the market, a decent number of people are spooked. I'm hearing a lot of people say that,

Jamie: 25:15

I guess.

Roy: 25:17

Yeah, I'm sort of like comparing it to last year when we saw a similar crash from like 4k to 1600, or whatever. Again, just sort of anecdotally, my timeline on Twitter, which is not the best representation, but the people then were, like, more bullish and sure that it was going to bounce back. And now I'm seeing more people say, Hey, we're heading into, it seems likely that we're heading into like a multi year bear market. I'm not convinced, obviously, like, no one knows. And I think that regardless of what happens, and if tees are sort of gonna be fine, like once eth settles at whatever price point is it going to be at? I think the NFT market will largely adjust and isn't going to be enough demand throughout the year that they'll probably perform fine in eth terms.

Jamie: 26:08

Yeah, I mean, I guess nobody, nobody knows. Nobody knows. But NFT's and crypto in general. I just the genies not going back in the bottle. That's no that's for dang sure. No.

Unknown: 26:22

All right. New news of the

Roy: 26:25

week.

Jamie: 26:29

board a yacht club. Right. Talk to me about the board APR club. It's a club. It's considered to be more specifically about what has happened within it recently. The mobile game is out. Does mobile game is finally out a lot of buzz about it got a long time ago, but Apple Apple rug desk, said I

Roy: 26:53

think November or maybe early December was one of his first gonna be out. Sounds out right? And yeah, Twitter is a Twitter with it. Um, people are loving the game. It seems fun and addictive. I have not played I basically have played

Unknown: 27:09

Yeah. It's good. It's

Jamie: 27:12

fun. It's a little like grindy and repetitive. So if you want to get any of the prizes, you're just going to have to play a lot of hours because like, they're already showing the leaderboard, which is not a thing that I was certain that they would do. But you can you can see other people's scores, and people are putting in a ton of hours. Just basically wave clearing the levels. And so yeah, when I first saw the prizes, I was like, Oh, I would love to get top 100. But that seems probably like something that won't happen. But top 250 I could do that. And it does seem like if I had started right away and grinded like he, I probably could have but the amount of hours that I will have to do just to get a little bit of you know, cool trophies, swag, or whatever is not worth it to me. But there's a serious intense competition going on from the people that are really gunning for not not just the top top prizes, because that's happening too. But also like, you know, there's going to be people who get 200 and 51st place, and people that get 100 and first place and miss out by one, there's going to be so many bubbles with these prizes that people are fighting very hard for. I think

Roy: 28:30

Yeah, so basically the reason I haven't played yet is that I guess I woke up or like the first day that it was out. I saw just a bunch of people post on Twitter about like these leaderboards and these fears, competitions. And I was like, I already sort of knew that. There was no way I was going to be competitive. But perhaps it was somehow a little more luck based and anyone who got you know, a certain way in or maybe it was more team based. But yeah, I was like, Alright, there's no no chance. I will I mean, I still want to try it. Just because yeah, you should play it's a fun design. Yeah. But yeah, I have no illusions about winning any of the prizes. I actually saw a great tweet earlier. I think it might have been by Captain trippy Captain trippy, basically saying that. His his prize or like the way he's gonna get prizes, just eBay.

Jamie: 29:18

Yeah. Yeah. And

Roy: 29:21

sounds about right. Like, I probably don't care enough about the merch. I'm not as into the merchant as most people. I just found it. Yeah. He says seems to win the ACE first meeting game. You need the following gaming skills, teamwork to never stop playing gallons of coffee. He says seeing as I have no gaming skills or time here's my strategy. eBay. And yeah, sounds about right. For a lot of people. Which is cool.

Jamie: 29:52

Yeah, like I mean, I guess we'll see what the Yeah, what the prizes are going for.

Roy: 29:56

Those who have the time and the ability to grind either get a really cool piece of merch on themselves or can probably tell it on eBay for a bunch of money for those who have less time

Jamie: 30:07

but more money. Yep, yep. And the other thing that we that was very big in the four APR club this week was named Mr. Joined.

Roy: 30:20

He has 50 something million Twitter followers.

Jamie: 30:25

Yes. I 185 million Instagram followers. So many. It's crazy. I had, I had looked up where he was in Twitter. He's the 20th biggest Twitter account, which now eclipses Jimmy Fallon is the biggest day because Jimmy was 23rd. But now, now that I had seen how many he has on Instagram, I'm going to check the top Instagram accounts. See if there? Um, I guess I'll go be it. Instagram. Yeah. No, like Instagrams own account of cool. Well, that doesn't kind of like time used to be on. What's it called? What was that one when you had a top eight? What? Myspace? Myspace? Uh huh. Are you so young that you don't know about MySpace is that I know, I know. That what I'm learning right now.

Roy: 31:19

I never had a MySpace but oh my god, it did have a Live Journal. That was like,

Jamie: 31:25

Okay. Um, anyway, back to this. Yeah. Who's the first? The first Instagram account that isn't Instagram is a another footballer Cristiano Ronaldo. Oh, yeah. Number four is also on Lionel Messi.

Roy: 31:42

What we're learning is that football is like Instagram.

Jamie: 31:45

Or I think it's that no, because everybody has Instagram such that people like footballers. Yeah.

Roy: 31:52

And well, here we go. I got I got, I got the as soccer players, the real football is not your American football is

Jamie: 32:00

right here. I mean, you're saying that as if I didn't call them footballers?

Roy: 32:04

No, I'm sort of saying it to just clarify for everyone. That is I

Jamie: 32:08

think all all the people that are so American, that they just think of footballers, as NFL footballers know that name are is not a football player, but perhaps I'm wrong. Anyway, he's a 19th for most followed Instagram accounts. So now he isn't just ahead of Courtney Kardashian and Miley Cyrus and yada, yada.

Roy: 32:29

And didn't you say one of his team members got an ape? Surely Oh, yeah.

Jamie: 32:33

Well, he bought two. But then he had a, I think, some sort of maybe an Instagram story or something said that, like he did it in conjunction with them. But then another one of his teammates bought their own one. I can't remember that player's name. I only I only can only honestly name like six soccer players. Yeah, he's on Paris Saint Germain, which is a huge team, huh? Yeah, big news.

Roy: 33:01

The eighth floor is at 86 eth. It's sort of been slowly climbing up, you shed with me slash group chat and interesting graph about just the number of apes for sale is just like been steadily dropping. And yeah, there's like 1200 or something now. And there was 1600, you know, a couple of months ago, which makes sense, like, unique ownership is going up. Those who have just one eight don't want to sell, they're just one eight, especially in the lead up to eight coin. And plenty of us who have more than one, eight, don't wanna sell any of their age. So it's just like, there's this supply shock that is very real. And it is causing me supply the price to go up. And,

Unknown: 33:43

yeah, it's such an

Jamie: 33:44

interesting thing. Because like, I'm thinking about the longevity and strength of it. And you know, like, a lot of times, you'll sort of see people's takes about how like, well, if they were able to flip punks, then, you know, surely something will be able to flip them. And I'm just I'm very curious about how true that is, and what makes each of them different from each other. And like, just all of that stuff, because the when punks came out versus when apes came out, and who got into them and like the speed which with which, with which their imagery was just, you know, distributed through society, and became a thing that was culturally relevant. It is very different. The trajectory is very different. And the types of, you know, like people and things that they've been associated with even is to me very different, where the punks were like, thoroughly, crypto native in a total way, whereas the apes are doing a thing that's sort of bridging the gap between crypto and the existing, you know, culture of society in a in a way that makes them very different.

Roy: 35:13

Yeah, it's sort of like punks, were and still are huge for the crypto and NFT native community. But they're not very well known outside of it. Whereas apes, they're just everywhere like, yet. All these celebrities have apes that a couple of them have punks, but they're very much just front and center, the face of NFT's. Now, for better or worse,

Jamie: 35:39

I think very normal people to a huge extent, recognize apes in a way that they don't pump. And there's also, of course, the huge difference in terms of what larva labs versus human Labs is doing. And their thought process behind the projects, which also makes it very different. And now I don't say these things to indicate that I think, you know, no NFT project will ever be able to flip apes, because like that's already just not even true. If you if you look at, you know, certain subsets of art or whatever, like x copy one of Wands or something like that, if you wanted to count them. Speaking of which actually, slides out here, we're talking about the CCO thing he made a right makes a right click save as Guy CCO and I forgot to mention that. Yeah, that's awesome. But yeah, but in terms of the way that Google Labs is building up the ecosystem, and the way that the individual owners are building up the ecosystem. instead of it just being sort of a, like fun and interesting crypto experiment, you know, like, like crypto punks, feel like they were that just sort of became a fun trinket for crypto native wealthy people to you know, own and show, the vape thing is just so different from that. Yeah,

Roy: 37:05

it really, really, really is that they're very much more building a brand. And, and have been copied

Jamie: 37:14

and continue to be copied in such a crazily thorough way, by so many other projects. You know, like, and again, a lot of the punks will will talk about how he copied them because like, you know, it's a it's a an image of a face, and they share some traits, but there's so much more copying that has happened. Of the the unique things that the apes have done, and tried to do, and built from way more projects than I think the fact that you know, beanies and 3d glasses are a trait on apes for instance.

Roy: 37:54

Yeah, no, I agree with agree with that. This. Yeah. Everyone, like so many projects during the inspiration from the apes playbook. Not the punks playbook.

Jamie: 38:05

And yeah, I was actually just talking to Jim earlier today, the on chain monkeys are doing what is basically a complete copying of the serum concept. Except there's this thing called dessert, not serums. Here on chain monkey, and then you'll get your new thing. That's, that's really well, yeah, again, really, three tiers of rare yeah,

Roy: 38:30

I've literally seen projects drop serums that, uh, just they have, like, dead take on the patents,

Jamie: 38:36

and then the lesser version is just, yeah, yeah, nevermind all the other stuff like, oh, well, we're gonna try and do you know, a mobile game. We're gonna try to do a real life hack. Like, just all of the things the merch. Yeah, there's, it seems like there's so much that's just been copying their playbook. And yeah, you know, some of it gets executed. Well, some of it doesn't. But the cream of the crop ness of yoga lab seems to be paramount still. Hmm. I am. I mean,

Roy: 39:08

I also agree that I can foresee many worlds where other projects come along and flip apes and you know, are more popular and, you know, successful by many metrics, but it's very difficult for me to conceive of a world where apes aren't also very popular and successful. They just basically have such a huge man wanna say they have a huge Headstart. Obviously, punks had a headstart as well, but in this new age of brand building, and, you know,

Jamie: 39:42

expanding into the real world, quote, unquote.

Roy: 39:47

Yeah, they're so far ahead and already so widespread that it's difficult for them to sort of not be a mainstay slash successful thing. And entity etc. Yeah,

Jamie: 40:02

I feel like they're they're striking a very good balance too in terms of building quickly, but not too quickly. Have you ever heard the expression? Make haste? Slowly? Yeah,

Roy: 40:14

I bring this up like, once every six hours. I think I've read through it because because you're on the, you know, I first heard it from.

Jamie: 40:24

Okay. Well, it feels like they're doing a great job of that to me.

Roy: 40:28

Yeah, I agree. Um, the first time I remember, make haste, you telling me make haste slowly was in relation to this podcast. Like when we first had the idea. We're like, you know, I was, I think more pushing for let's get it out sooner rather than later. Blowing up. And then you were like,

Jamie: 40:47

yeah, do we need to get a guest on Episode Two? Yeah, yeah. And then you were like, it's probably a case of,

Roy: 40:52

you know, we can just make haste slowly and take our time keeps on going anywhere. And yeah, I mean, we've done that. And I think it's worked out fine. over now. We're sort of making haste more hastily, hastily. With we brought on someone to like manage the social media side of things and marketing veto.

Jamie: 41:13

Yeah. V. Yeah. I mean, Vittorio almost brought himself on, right. He basically yeah. And I like to help expand your audience. And we said, yeah,

Roy: 41:20

he's doing an absolutely amazing job is like a couple of days in just Yeah. So

Jamie: 41:25

Boy, that that hold my beer title. So Jeff was a very funny response on Twitter. You saw that one? A lot. No, I

Roy: 41:33

don't think I saw that one.

Jamie: 41:35

Okay, well, nevermind. Well, yeah. Um, anyway,

Roy: 41:39

we got sidetracked again.

Jamie: 41:41

Yes, we did. But we also covered this pretty thoroughly. What else specific? You want to get into no speculate about eight coins? So that's exactly what I was thinking

Roy: 41:51

of. Like, yeah, we don't need to do that anymore.

Jamie: 41:53

Now, we've done a lot of that. Yeah. Well, actually,

Roy: 41:57

hang on. Okay. I have heard a few sort of rumors on basically on Twitter about people saying that UGL ABS has taken like, on some VC money for the a point or like some seed investors or something like that. Uh, have you heard that? Do you have any thoughts? Either way

Jamie: 42:18

that rings like the tiniest Bell, but only in so much as it feels like maybe on Twitter, I scrolled past like a single tweet that that seemed to indicate it, but I nothing concrete that I can at all.

Roy: 42:32

Yeah. I mean, it's nothing to mine, either. It's a couple of tweets,

Jamie: 42:37

maybe I'll certainly be a YC VC. I

Roy: 42:43

think if they are doing that, it'll be in such a thoughtful, conscientious manner, like four year vesting period type thing. And it would be in order to raise funds to do other cool things for the benefit of ape holders. Like yeah, they're not going to, I really doubt they're going to sell out and, you know, take on an enormous amount of money VC funding or angel investing or whatever it might be in a manner where those who invest can dump on a boulders all the public, right

Jamie: 43:15

detrimental way. Yeah, so I see a tweet here from RDM underscore 41 says, well, for those of you that care, it seems like eight coins sold to a VC story actually has legs. I've confirmed with three different and unrelated parties a hold my thoughts on this for how as I tried to learn more about it, so yeah, there's rumor going around that I guess some VCs will be getting some amount of the eight coins at a time at some price point. But yeah, that that's all we know. And we don't really even know that we've just heard that but yeah, I guess it'll be interesting to see if that's true and how open they are about it and what all the numbers are and stuff

Roy: 44:02

yeah, I'd be really curious to know that like devaluation numbers it is also

Jamie: 44:08

interesting like you know, their their war chest yoga labs that is ought to be fairly large. But if they just keep having bigger and bigger ideas of what they want to accomplish it could certainly make a lot of sense for them to raise funds not just from you know the community itself yeah definitely All right. This is This wraps up the board segment I think Buddy board a our

Roy: 44:47

feels like it's been a while since we've had an election. I did the thing I started usually intro the segments but there was like a one second gap. So I was like, I just I'm jumping in.

Jamie: 44:58

Okay, keep keep jumping on. Yeah, it feels like it's been a while since

Roy: 45:01

we've spoken up blocks. I think like we had a Twitter q&a segment and then maybe up Lux was on a bit of a break. Before that.

Jamie: 45:08

I think we talked about Chimera coming up pretty recently. But yeah, a little bit of a,

Roy: 45:12

we've just had a break in the recording and release of episodes.

Jamie: 45:17

So tomorrow, yes, let's see. It's midnight now. So 13 hours from now, cosmic reef will be coming out by Leo Villarreal. It's the next curated project I'm not sure where it falls in the seasons but city right but dropped to season six. Okay, so Chimera was the first one of season six okay yeah, yeah it's it looks great.

Roy: 45:42

I mean, I'm I'm literally looking at min number one right now on the blog site. It once again looks unlike anything else we've seen. Out of up looks curated. It's Mesmer, mesmerising, honestly, it's like,

Jamie: 45:57

yeah, it does look pretty different. It kind of a couple factory projects have like popped into my mind while looking at it. But definitely nothing curated. At all reminds him but I did initially think of I think it was called antenna. I don't know if you remember that project. I feel like I saw a little bit of that in it.

Roy: 46:14

Yeah. I vaguely recall antenna. I'm not sure if intimate with it. But But yeah,

Jamie: 46:20

it's it's seems like not really a good comparison. Because like, I'm looking at it. And I almost don't know why antennas coming to mind because it isn't really that's no more at all. Yeah, but for some reason, it is evoking a little bit of that to me. Yeah. So why don't why don't you maybe read the description from the artist or, or just give your impressions of what you're seeing here?

Roy: 46:45

Maybe I'll do both. So

Jamie: 46:48

here's the description. A particular order

Roy: 46:51

can be found in deepest space in our oceans and forests and in all living things, including ourselves, a unified code producing endless variation, gravity and cosmic winds shape star forming nebulas into coral like foams. Flowers self organized in radial symmetry with signals hidden from the human eye stars are birthed explode, collapse and reborn invertebrates move on the tides of the oceans, signaling with ever changing bio luminescence bioluminescence light bends time as events unfold in our lives. It's a very, like, a big picture. In cosmic it's right, there's like, these patterns that that we find in the universe, I guess, Leo was maybe trying to recreate that a little bit. And he the next paragraph says cosmic reef reflects in the ordered randomness in nature, capable of producing beauty and symmetry the individual works begin with a simple geometry that becomes more complex through composed dynamic layers, each born of a combination of human control and computational chance. So these are like these animated this sort of a lot going on. I think sort of ordered randomness sounds about right, like, though the tests mean number one, at least it has a whole bunch of like circles of varying sizes and and the moving in randomness, but ordered, like

Jamie: 48:25

a Yeah, so the things I can say is is like the diagrams that you made in like chemistry class, or saw in chemistry class, that would be showing you what a molecule looks like. This small circles to me are very sort of evocative of a chemical structure and then there's like, other stuff going on with like these more illuminated ones that are kind of bouncing in and out of the frame and appear to be closer to to us than the ones that look like a chemical to me this this must be almost nonsense to somebody that's not looking at it. But yeah, you can look at the Mint number one to sort of follow along we'll have a link to it.

Roy: 49:05

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading out those paragraphs I'm like no one's gonna understand this without the visual aid. On that note, like we are planning on moving a podcast recordings to be video recordings as well just

Jamie: 49:21

a for the purposes of if we're going

Roy: 49:25

and talking about something like our blogs, if people so desire, they can watch the YouTube video or whatever clip of us actually talking through the art as witnessing it. But also because Vito suggested and it's a great idea to be able to clip like little snippets of us answering questions for Twitter, q&a, etc. And just is better if it's on video. So hopefully next next episode will be a video episode. Um, I actually had a we actually had Lior in the Zen Academy discord for like an AMA A segment or section or session, or whatever you want to call it a few days ago, where he gave us a little bit of like a background on himself and

Jamie: 50:10

inside, talk to us about that then into the project.

Roy: 50:13

So he's been creating a generative art, digital art for a long time. This is the first time he's created something that like, in his words is purely digital. Normally, he creates, he uses, you know, algorithms, he encouraged to create art. And then he takes that into the brain and create real world for these sort of interesting installations. He plays with light a lot. And you can kind of see that in this as well as a lot of like, different brightnesses and like, I don't know the right terminology, but you can tell this light at play. And yeah, he's had I mean, he's been an artist for decades and he's had installations in tons of prominent galleries and museums around the world. So it's um, it's cool to see more prominent artists getting into purely on chain or like digital output generative art. Yeah, he was very excited by the entire process and seems like he's he's going to continue exploring, like NFT's or generative art on on chain rather,

Jamie: 51:24

is this is Genesis NFT collection. Yes, it is.

Roy: 51:28

It's his Genesis NFT collection. So interesting. Yeah. I, I definitely want some I'm going to be trying to MIT it's let's see, it's a Dutch auction starting at five eth and dropping all at 0.1. I doubt it gets there. Who knows where it sells out? But

Unknown: 51:46

yeah,

Jamie: 51:48

I'm let's make predictions. I'm going to look at the exact tears.

Roy: 51:53

There's a lot of tears like

Jamie: 51:54

there is a lot of tears. Yeah, I think. All right, figure out which tier you think it'll sell out in and then tell me when you have your answer locked in? Have my answer locked in? Same? On the count of three. So your answer? 123 points. 3.1. Wow. Oh, wow. Big, big spread between those

Roy: 52:19

big spread? points six. I mean, especially with eighth as low as it is. That seems very low to me.

Jamie: 52:25

I know. I for a second. I was thinking point four. I was like, No, he is too low for that. Yeah, people might just get bored. They can't take it actually wait all the way to points. Because there's so many theories here. Yeah. 2.1, though. Interesting. Okay.

Roy: 52:38

Yeah, I mean, Camira. I think too

Jamie: 52:42

bad. Like, I heard more people get being excited about Chimera than I have for this one.

Roy: 52:47

Yeah, I mean, I've actually I've not really been in the whole space, like the artbooks. Channel, or even I guess

Jamie: 52:55

1.2 would be the exact middle of ours. In terms of tiers, there's there's five tiers between our two guesses and 1.2 is the middle of that. So the official to board a guess of when it will mint out is 1.2.

Roy: 53:10

I guess we'll see. Yeah, I guess we'll see. I hope it's 0.6. I mean, for obviously selfish reasons, I would be able to get more and or the same amount at a cheaper price.

Jamie: 53:27

But yeah, we'll see.

Roy: 53:30

When the apple market has just been it's been bearish for a while. It had like a little bit of a bounce, I think towards the end of December, or maybe started January. But it seems to have been somewhat short lived. I think. I haven't really seems

Jamie: 53:45

like it's been going pretty sideways to me lately. Yeah, for the most part. I think, um, Mira had like a post,

Roy: 53:56

a sell out like pump, and then it sort of dropped

Jamie: 53:59

a very short lived one. Yeah. And that also didn't go super high. It didn't I'm looking at it right now. The floor is 1.8 It looks like it was just below for the day it came out. Then just kind of has slowly dwindled to be at 1.8. It was it was like 1.6 As of like a week ago. So yeah. And I just consistently be in between one and a half and two lately.

Roy: 54:30

I'm now currently during my favorite to boot up block section podcasts activity and checking. assamica

Jamie: 54:37

I actually bought one yesterday or earlier today. Yeah.

Roy: 54:43

I don't love any of the like, floors or ons. Yeah.

Jamie: 54:48

I love that collection. I

Roy: 54:49

can't wait. I just have a bunch of these.

Jamie: 54:52

Disclaimer, I'm working out what interesting. But I mean, it's so funny how often we talk about but it is it is amazing. How just much interesting varieties they get you all these curate, like the curation board is fucking doing their job.

Roy: 55:08

Yeah, this is so, so different to one another. Yeah, like the

Jamie: 55:12

the, I would say, of the curated collection, the two that are, like at all similar basically is in spirals and vortex. Yeah. Other than that there's like nothing. Yeah.

Roy: 55:29

It's gonna be incredible to see if this just continues for another year like,

Jamie: 55:36

what else are we gonna see? Right? Um, I guess in theory, we're we're probably going to have to have more like audio content at some point too, right? Like it just sort of makes sense. But get more of the senses involved, right whenever we can't taste NFT's yet. But we can see him and we can hear him but for the most part, our blocks curated has only been sight but you might as well add in some other some other stuff to why you can't write that. Yeah, seems like sort of a natural area to add.

Roy: 56:13

Yeah, I think we're gonna see more of that we're seeing more like

Jamie: 56:17

gender the other senses touch. I'm trying to what else can you touch?

Roy: 56:22

Taste? Sight? Oh, we'll touch like beatboxes is that VR? It's not curated. It's playground. But we could see more VR.

Jamie: 56:33

But that I mean, that one is one of the ones that does that sound already?

Roy: 56:36

Yeah, I really gotta check that out. Like

Jamie: 56:40

they are cool. You got the Oculus now? Go girl. I only done it in a in a not really? A browser window.

Roy: 56:48

No, I really need to check that out. Um,

Jamie: 56:51

yeah, feel free to check out mine. If you'd like. Yeah, definitely.

Roy: 56:56

That seems cool. Anyway, back to this. The senses.

Jamie: 56:59

Sight. Sound what is the five of them? Right? The cellular sins. Five senses. The Sixth Sense. Big kid could see dead people. That was the sixth one. So the rest of us have five, huh? All right. sight, sound. Taste smell. Oh, touch. Smell was the one I was forgetting. Okay, and I guess soon enough, we'll be wearing like Facebook gloves or whatever. That'll let us touch them too. For the time being, and then really does seem like you got it. You got to hear Him and see Him. And that's that's your only options. So curation board where we're putting it out there. You got to add more sound into these if you want to keep doing stuff, although honestly, this is coming out of a discussion of us talking about how they've done such a good job. Yeah, constantly giving us very new and different stuff. And now we're going you know what, the only way to get something new. Is that sound? Yeah, I mean, just Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I guess humans have been creating art for many 1000s of years. And they continue to do new stuff. And so it shouldn't be too surprising that specifically in generative art here, you know, people continue to do stuff that is very different from what has been done before. Yeah. Have you?

Roy: 58:16

I'm gonna jump to FX hash. Now. Have you been paying much attention to what's been going on there?

Jamie: 58:22

No, I tried to MIT something like a week and a half ago, and I couldn't remember my password to the wallet and I have not gone back in

Roy: 58:29

You're so bad. Knowing your well, you know, like,

Jamie: 58:33

yeah, you're not wrong. But I'm just so used to like the web 2.0 stuff where you just click forgot password and get new ones for any sort of account that I'm only accessing like once every six weeks or whatever, or even less than that. Those Those are things that I basically just click forgot password every single time.

Roy: 58:51

I guess it's my understanding that the FX hash market has been pretty slow.

Jamie: 58:56

Yeah, well, I mean, what I have seen from Matt W. Tess's updates, it seems like it's been a lot of red eye sore.

Roy: 59:07

Galaxy RTK on Twitter post. Oh my God, he's got nine of them. Right. God monoliths. Yeah, he picked up three I think. Therefore, Joe says 5000 Yeah, yeah.

Jamie: 59:21

And 10 test prices come back at in the crypto crash too. So it used to be like for something I think now it's very close to three. Yeah. Looking at my collection now. I mean,

Roy: 59:34

it's just this so much great art. Because well,

Jamie: 59:37

you know, what else that is relevant is that we've been both working on our gallery dots. So galleries. Oh, yeah. And I've been having a lot of fun with that. I mean, I actually tweeted out about how much I was pleased with the curation that I did for the first six pieces of my of my artblocks gallery and they're great. Have you still not figured out how to do other galleries? Yeah. Do you do other galleries? Or like or maybe we're using different words to describe the same thing?

Roy: 1:00:06

I can do other collections within the same gallery. I think that's maybe we'll just what I'm talking about. Yeah. Which I've done a lot of that, like I've got one for my crypto covens. One for my blit maps and blit noughts. Yeah. Okay,

Jamie: 1:00:19

that's I think we're just talking about the same thing, then. But there, is there a way to directly link to only one of those? Or do you have to learn

Roy: 1:00:26

that I'm aware of, he can go into your settings and like, have it just show one of them. So when someone goes to the gallery, the jossi one, but if you want them all there, you got to scroll? Quite a lot online now. Have you seen mine recently? It's so much I

Jamie: 1:00:44

have not, but I heard how big it is earlier today we're about.

Roy: 1:00:51

But I'll definitely check it out. Every day. I'll link to both of these. We will Yeah. Every day I've been adding like one new sort of collections. There's like crypto covens and then boss beauties. And then the littles MF as I did today, as well, math castles, and it's really fun, like organizing them, just sort of again, like curating them or like placing certain ones next to all the sudden ones to see which seems more visually appealing. And then you can change like, the number per row and it's just, it's fun to it's just fun to play with your NFT's.

Jamie: 1:01:28

And it's like, it's got a great, like minimalistic design to the website. Yeah, that really just lets the art stand out. Whereas like something like to me on cyber, like the the level of technology we have for navigating in those sort of spaces. Still, to me, makes it feel a little gimmicky to have the galleries like trying to you know, trying to exist like a real gallery, basically, in terms of inhabiting a three dimensional space. Whereas, you know, at least when you're talking about static imagery, um I prefer a much prefer the way gallery Gods so it is doing it. Yeah,

Roy: 1:02:16

I agree. I love the font like to just down to like the tiniest details. It's it really is minimalistic, and pleasant.

Unknown: 1:02:27

It

Jamie: 1:02:28

the list of who they gave the VIP cards to is so it's so funny that I'm in there, but I love it. It's yeah, it's let me go through and

Roy: 1:02:41

share some names. So yeah, they have like a bunch of different tiers for the need to like an NFT a card, a member card to have a gallery there. And there's like

Jamie: 1:02:51

there's 40 of us in the VIP card. Yeah, there's like mafia

Roy: 1:02:55

cod. I guess they gave it to people who went to Mafa silver gold founding member and then VIP. VIP is like DC investor. Kevin Rose, def beef, Flamingo Dow bonafide these are dow snowpro. listeners. Vincent vendo. And then us.

Jamie: 1:03:17

Yeah, and yeah, Galaxy RTK. Who you're just talking about? Oh, yeah.

Roy: 1:03:21

He has a tremendous collection. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I didn't recognize a few people thought

Jamie: 1:03:28

it's Oh, JD ah, by the way, that's another person. Just an amazing collection.

Roy: 1:03:32

Ridiculous collection. Yeah.

Jamie: 1:03:34

I'm about to get sidetracked just looking at other people's galleries here.

Roy: 1:03:38

I just clicked on bonafide Hans, and God or the way that he

Jamie: 1:03:43

curated his his artblock. So I'm sorry, his fidenza specifically so long ago was just kind of a revelation to me, honestly. Yeah. I thought they were so amazing. What a crazy collection of yes, it's insane. Yeah, the

Roy: 1:04:03

the three micro golf socks.

Jamie: 1:04:07

Yeah, the wind through grassy calls. Yeah. Love lievable. Just Unbeliev unbelievable. Do you do you have anything else you want to talk about? Or should we, um, believe. Continue to look at this stuff and talk about how great it looks.

Roy: 1:04:27

Oh, it's unbelievable. It's so good. It is.

Jamie: 1:04:31

But Kevin Rose has a hell of a collection of stuff too. Huh? Oh, yeah.

Roy: 1:04:35

I'm just kicking myself for not getting his brief collective membership card.

Jamie: 1:04:40

Oh, yeah. That's interesting. Because I was thinking about this recently is like, how crazily expensive it felt like that and the Firefly thing from Gary Vee where and how like, much of slam dunks they turned out to be in retrospect and it just, I'm sort of upset with myself for for fading them, but in the end, you got to kind of listen to yourself, even if, in hindsight you would have made money. Not listening to yourself.

Roy: 1:05:09

Yeah, I mean, I even I knew it was gonna be successful. I just, I was busy and sidetracked. And then I was stubborn to not just buy in on secondary, whatever, but like, they went down to one eth in the Dutch auction, and they're like, 19 eth now, it's kind of crazy. But congrats to everyone that got in.

Jamie: 1:05:30

We have had plenty of all the success. I'm looking at Kevin's collection

Roy: 1:05:35

now.

Jamie: 1:05:36

Yeah, I really like that happy consume one from from x copy. I want to. I mean, I'm sure I can't afford it. But maybe it's like a one on 1000 or something. Yeah, I doubt it. Not be consumed. What's the properties X copies on Radek cards? Artists copy. This is a good podcast. I'm thinking that there's 1234567 of them, and only one is listed as 55 F.

Roy: 1:06:10

Not absolutely insane for next copy.

Jamie: 1:06:14

Yeah, it's I mean, it's absolutely insane for something where I'm going, Oh, maybe I can No, yeah. But the last ones were traded for 3.8. And 4.4. Looks like the only secondary sales of them. But I assume that was a long time ago. Let's say Yeah, four months ago. Yeah. Anyway, is concluding the artbox segment. It is our mistake of the week of the week. This is a pseudo segment that we're doing, at least for this episode. But we reached out on Twitter and just basically were saying, hey, what? What would you like for us to do on the podcast? What do you think we're missing? What would you like to hear? And we got a great suggestion from at dapper J man. Dapper J man said you write a lot about the regret FOMO etc, that you feel, but I think you should have a segment where you talk about your worst in quotes, trade or decision that week where everyone can relate. And we both thought that was a good idea. I was a little apprehensive about it. Because I was just thinking that essentially, to me, the way I think about things is that, you know, the biggest mistake that I made in the past week, truly seems like it's not something that you will be able to know was the biggest mistake until some point, you know, far into the future. Just in terms of my sort of more longer term thinking, but we can kind of get that caveat out of the way and then discuss from there.

Roy: 1:07:52

Yeah, we make enough mistakes and missteps and have firmer regret about this infinite things. I'm sure we can come up with something, at least,

Jamie: 1:08:01

like So just as a as a for instance, like when fragments of the infinite field was really pumping. And I sold some that were really high. It it felt maybe like that was a big mistake, because it could have kept going. And then in retrospect, that ended up being quite smart. But then, you know, excuse me another two years in the future. Excuse me, oh my god, yes,

Roy: 1:08:25

boy. Oh,

Jamie: 1:08:26

but, you know, if the if the price rockets up again, then all of a sudden, it will be a mistake again. So, you know, in that sort of sense, you can't necessarily know but now now I'm just adding a caveat a second time. So why don't you go first? What what do you have? Oh, um, okay, I'll go first, I'll go first, you go first. Yeah, I had been setting aside money for my 2021 taxes from my NFT gains. And I had been cashing out some amount of Aetherium. And then also kind of diversifying my holdings into other coins. However, none of them were stable coins. And because I didn't know exactly what my taxes would be. I couldn't have just or, I mean, I didn't just cash out, you know, exactly enough. I just cashed out what it seemed like, oh, this will be a big chunk of it. And then when I figured out exactly what I need, I'll be able to cash out more later to to make up for that difference. But now with the way that crypto has crashed, and more specifically, own which crashed a lot. And I had a big bigger bag of and thought you know, that would be a good place for me to take money out of when I have to for taxes. I'm now basically having to sell Eph that I would rather not be selling in order to come up with it. So I guess just not adequately setting aside money into stable Enough currencies to to easily pay my taxes was probably my biggest mistake. And now Now I'm paying the price by having to sell F at prices that I don't really want to be selling it at. Yeah,

Roy: 1:10:15

that's that's a big one and a good one. I share a lot of that I think my tax burden is not as significant as yours, at least, and certainly not as like a percentage wise and I have.

Jamie: 1:10:30

Yeah. Do you know what a, like the high end percentage would be? Because for us, in theory, it's basically 37% is the high end of what you would pay on your profits?

Roy: 1:10:42

Yeah, I think the high end is around 50% for both German and Australian taxes, but in Germany, at least, it's very favorable in the sense that if you hold for 12 months, there's zero tax.

Jamie: 1:10:55

So it's, it's okay. So here, I think it would be 15% if you held for a year. Hmm. But you know, neither of us are there yet on any of our NFT holdings. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's

Roy: 1:11:09

honestly, probably the biggest reason I honestly, a lot of the time I'm thinking I should sell I should sell like a bunch of stuff. But then I think a I'm pretty macro bullish and be, there's just such an enormous tax benefit to holding and waiting to sell later that. Yeah, I just convinced myself

Jamie: 1:11:28

so that I mean, this might be not interesting, or relevant or whatever. But like, what, what is the, because you are a resident in Germany, you would only be dealing with German taxes. And Australia doesn't want anything or

Roy: 1:11:42

like, is their stance Correct? Um, okay. I paid German, I feel

Jamie: 1:11:47

like America would still want me paying taxes, even if I was living abroad. Yeah, yeah, I've heard that as

Roy: 1:11:51

well. But I think basically, you can either be a tax resident of Australia or a tax resident of Germany, and if I'm a tax resident of Germany, I pay tax here and Australia can't say, Hey, you owe us money as well.

Jamie: 1:12:06

Okay. I think actually, specifically in with America, even if you renounce your citizenship, they want seven years of dies after that. I remember that being a thing back in the poker days, when

Roy: 1:12:19

I remember that. I remember. It's like, it's free up to like, 80,000 a year or something. But anything beyond that, it's like, yeah, America is gonna get

Jamie: 1:12:27

a little more reasonable. Yeah. Um, anyway, yeah, I obviously, like, wish I

Roy: 1:12:36

transferred more money from eth to stables when eth was at like, 4800. I did a bit of that, and probably not enough. And then so when he started crashing, lots and lots and lots, I Loki panicked and was like, hey, you know, what if eth goes to $250? Am I really going to be content just with, you know, what my portfolio was valued at? And I was like, No, so let me just sell a bit more at 2800, I think. And then around 2500, a little bit more, just, I guess, to start doing what I probably should have been doing, which is what I'm planning on doing going forward. And that's just like, consistently sell a bit of eth back to stables.

Jamie: 1:13:27

Just totally the opposite.

Roy: 1:13:29

Dollar cost averaging to buy into crypto is like dollar cost averaging to, you know, get into, quote unquote, real money,

Jamie: 1:13:37

the way the last year has gone for us. And the way we've, you know, by luck, and then also the way we have kind of guided it by choice has just made us so ludicrously long F that it really has become irresponsible to probably not trim that back some. And And with the recent pullback on it. We're we're both paying a little bit of the price for it.

Roy: 1:14:00

Yeah. I mean, I'm still ludicrously long. Yeah, of course. So am I. Yeah, no, not

Jamie: 1:14:06

even like, it's still if I talk to a financial advisor, they would tell me this is not a balanced portfolio. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a different story, then, then. Yeah. You know, not having yourself well positioned to take care of what you need to take care of, while also being you know, bullish and long. doing to a big extent. That's the sort of new thing. Yeah. So I see that's like, pot.

Roy: 1:14:33

I'll take part of that as my mistake. I think the other one is what I mentioned before, and sort of ongoing it's like, just not getting into the proof collective. earlier. Like, it just seems like

Jamie: 1:14:44

you're buying bought No, I haven't bought in you're still not in Okay,

Roy: 1:14:48

now. It's like 19th I'm like, Yeah, that's crazy. missed that.

Jamie: 1:14:52

But I read today he's got some amazing artists lined up for I guess they're they're just going to be minting stuff directly. To the holders or something, or maybe I don't know exactly how it works, but yeah, I don't know. Some great artists lined up that only these people will be getting some of their art that's coming on. Yeah, I don't know if they're paying or if it's AirDrop or what?

Roy: 1:15:15

Yeah, I gotta I gotta figure out that like Zen Academy 333 club. Yeah, figure out more ways to bring value that way. Another one that that's actually sort of an eating me up probably more than the Kevin Rose brew thing because that's like, whatever.

Jamie: 1:15:30

It's got the, the sorry, the listener wanted our worst trader decision in the week. Now you're about to get to your third one. You always want to do on your comes number three,

Roy: 1:15:40

Azuki it's it's a project. Oh, yeah, I

Jamie: 1:15:43

wasn't even going crazy too.

Roy: 1:15:44

I freakin love the art of I love the team of the project founders actually in the 333 Club, he joined sort of day, two days before minting or something like right around there. But I had a space with him. I could tell the community is hyped. I knew he was going to do well. Um, I was busy the time of the Dutch auction. So I couldn't meet at 1 eth Now I'm double guessing which one it is. It's easy. I'm just

Jamie: 1:16:14

realizing now by the way. I said the name of that currency many many times in this segment and probably upset people. I don't know if I can get up not

Roy: 1:16:22

math. But um, yeah, I I didn't get into the Dodge auction at one eath. Who knows if I would ever be anyway. So like two minutes, but then those sitting on secondary like two ages? And a two to two. And

Jamie: 1:16:37

what is the ages? When you're talking? NFT time what is that? On? Like three days one week? And not even? Yeah, to me, that's

Roy: 1:16:43

ages. Two ages ages is so many times I looked at it. I was like, Maybe I should get more. I got one. But um, yeah, it seemed. It seemed to me like it was going to be a project that did not suffer the post reveal dip. And it basically didn't, so far has been hovering between three and a half and four eth. And the rare ones been going for like 10s of eth. Maybe 100 is the highest sale? I don't know. Honestly, I just really frickin love the project. And I wish I had just more of it. Obviously, I can buy in now. 3.45 eth. But,

Unknown: 1:17:16

um,

Jamie: 1:17:18

that's sort of a bad habit to get into. Right. Yeah. And it's just being that consistently willing to chase stuff. Yeah. Not only because, excuse me that it's inherently a little bit dangerous. But it also doesn't sort of hone your skill of making sure to get stuff early. Because you feel like I can just kind of buy later. Yeah. Whereas you kind of want to not be having that FOMO fallback plan as your as your entire strategy.

Roy: 1:17:52

Yeah, 100%.

Jamie: 1:17:55

highest sale at eth, which is Yowza. So and is it a 10,000 collection?

Roy: 1:18:03

It is I think it's a bit less than 10. I know it is 10,000 is 10,050 300 unique owners. They've already got almost 40,000 eth traded on secondary. And yeah, it's an awesome project. I guess it's I have I need to sell stuff. Because I have this growing list of projects that I'm like, when the next NFT bear market hits in price tank, I want to load up on this, this, this, this and this, but if I'm not selling

Jamie: 1:18:32

I feel like I'm always wanting to sell stuff so I can buy stuff. And then I look through my wallets and I go I can't sell any of this. I don't Yeah, I don't want to sell any that there's stuff in my wallets that people want to buy. I do not want to sell. Yeah, um, that's it. I'm

Roy: 1:18:47

very greedy, honestly. Yeah, I know. I go 58 Crypto carbons and 41 Boss beauties. And they floors like 1.8 each each. Um, and I'm just like, I don't want to sell any because I'm so bullish on them. I'm like, it's just

Jamie: 1:19:03

so funny. Do better. You know, normal people have one and they're like, go I'm bullish, but I don't want to sell or like, you know, if you're if you're doing a little better you have three and you go I really don't want to go down from three to two. You're over here being deck going, Oh, I have 58 But I can't possibly get over my position. Only 52 of them. Yeah, it's insane. Like not well, now one person is crying for years. I'm not asking for people to cry. I know. I know. And just Yeah.

Roy: 1:19:32

It's, um, I guess just insights like it the feeling never goes away. Like yeah, I mean, if I had 1000 I would probably be willing to see the thing is like,

Jamie: 1:19:46

what happens you end up being cranky with the Bored Apes. Right. And Dr. Duncan on you for the rest of your life? Yeah, my God. You sold 58 Crypto covens under two eth

Roy: 1:20:01

Exactly. He did the same thing, or he's done a similar thing with the world of women. I think he minted 1000 of those as well. And he don't like all of them for under two eth.

Jamie: 1:20:10

How is he not just holding like, 10 of these things for the moon potential?

Roy: 1:20:14

No. He said he's holding 50 still so because he writes, so yeah.

Jamie: 1:20:20

But still like 1000 That's yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, so this has been our new segment mistake of the week, our possibly returning segment mistake of the week.

Roy: 1:20:35

Yeah, mistakes.

Jamie: 1:20:37

We we thought we would try something new to get a little bit more engagement going on with our listeners. So we're going to be doing a poll app for each episode, which for people that don't know that's a proof of attendance protocol, and Roy's going to tell you how that works.

Roy: 1:20:55

Well, before do you say pull up or Pope? Because I've heard people say, say po app. Okay, good. We're on the same page, where I should have known that because the way you said it, but I've heard

Jamie: 1:21:06

it and then you said, How do you say, I just said,

Roy: 1:21:09

uh, anyway, we're doing this. And the way it works is that we'll tell you a secret word. And there'll be a link in the show notes. Geography. Wow, that was those creepy Jamie. That's the word.

Jamie: 1:21:24

What's the secret word? It's, you can't do a secret word in a in a positive, uplifting way. Right? It has to be scandalous,

Roy: 1:21:30

creepy. He said it was so loud. Like, shouldn't

Jamie: 1:21:33

it be Geography? Geography? That's the secret word for this episode.

Roy: 1:21:39

That's the secret word, you will go to a website and type it in the website we'll link to in the show notes. And

Jamie: 1:21:47

yeah, not just any website. Yeah.

Roy: 1:21:49

You go to open sea and type in geography, you're not gonna get a pull up? Probably not. And, yeah, basically, the Pope is an NFT. It's on the X die network, I'm pretty sure. So it's like gasless. And we'll go into your your, your wallets, or Metamask wallet, for example. And it's just sort of this little image that says, hey, you were here. It's proof that you attended, attended this podcast listening and I believe we'll only be making it available for like 24 or 48 hours after this recording goes live, just so that

Jamie: 1:22:31

I mean, so that it's proof that you attend right and aren't so someone

Roy: 1:22:34

in six months can come back and say hey, I was you know, this is proof that I attended the I listened to the podcast when it launched. Yeah, who knows what we'll do in the future? Maybe we can like because of the nature of NFT's. We can do fun things like AirDrop something for free to everyone who has a co op or you know, you get exclusive

Jamie: 1:22:57

access to one's Bible. Yeah, blah blah blah. Please have access

Roy: 1:23:01

to a certain type of merch. Anyway, you the possibilities are endless, but that's that's what we're doing.

Jamie: 1:23:09

Remember the word geography that's that's all we've got for this episode though.

Roy: 1:23:18

Yep, we will catch you in the next one. Pretty q&a.

Jamie: 1:23:22

Thanks for listening. Bye

Intro: 1:23:24

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh