Jamie: 0:00

The hosts of Two Bored Apes are not registered investment advisors. The podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only. Nothing said on it should be construed as investment advice

Intro: 0:11

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh

Jamie: 0:29

Welcome to a special episode of Two Bored Apes. I'm your host, Jamie and I'm here with my friend and Cohost Roy. Roy, how are you?

Roy: 0:36

I'm well I'm well. I'm full, as usual, and I think you are too but I'm well.

Jamie: 0:44

Yes, I'm also full. We've just both had big meals as we do, as we should not do but dishes. No, but the timing just happens to work out that we basically just post a dinner whenever we're recording.

Roy: 0:56

Well, I had dinner about nine hours ago or something. And I just decided because I'm a fatty to have another meal. Like an hour ago. That was way too large.

Jamie: 1:05

Second,

Roy: 1:06

or second dinner. Yeah, we, I mean, this is already very off topic. But Rachel and I are going on a juice cleanse in like two days. And we're just like, not eat. Yeah.

Jamie: 1:16

I like that tweet. You sent out that

Roy: 1:18

I thought that was very funny.

Jamie: 1:19

Right. And your Twitter is not usually funny. So that was yeah, it was a nice change of pace. This is episode 23. I didn't say that. But I said it's a special episode. Why special episode, right?

Roy: 1:31

It is the last episode of the year we're recording this on? Well, it's NYE for me. I don't think it's quite easy for you. But it's 52

Jamie: 1:38

minutes away from being New Year's Eve for me. Yeah.

Roy: 1:41

So we decided we will like put aside our usual segments and we're going to do a sort of a Year review. You know, talk about some of the highlights. To be honest,

Jamie: 1:51

though, there's been kind of a lot of news in general and in the in the Bored Ape Yatch Club, but we're gonna ignore that for the time being and just do this. I want to know what the news is that you were thinking, well, there was like the SOS drop, which was oh, yeah, anyway.

Roy: 2:06

Yeah. Yeah, so we're gonna do Year review predictions, and highlights of 2021. And then we're gonna have like predictions of what we think might happen in 2022. Maybe resolutions and like, personal stuff, but we'll see.

Jamie: 2:20

I only wrote down the first two things, but yeah, I previously did my resolution so I can get into those if you want. This is all also like NFT specific right? We're when we're talking about our predictions and our highlights, we're talking about NFT related stuff. Yeah,

Roy: 2:39

I don't have any predictions for what like the Omicron virus is gonna look like

Jamie: 2:44

when the Super Bowl or any of that stuff yeah,

Roy: 2:47

here's the Super Bowl has been decided yet. It has nothing to do like the game happens in like, January February usually so it's pretty close.

Jamie: 2:58

Yeah, well, they don't figure it out until two weeks before that's when the Final Four teams by anyway. Do you want to wish maybe go back and forth on on these rather than having Yes. Tell all of ours. Okay. Yeah, I guess I'll just get started then. All right, my first highlight for me I wrote down February 22nd. I read power to the person by Paki McCormack which we've talked about, maybe once in every three episodes or whatever, yeah, but that was truly the article that made me not think that NFT's were stupid and not realize or not think they were a scam and they were in fact a very interesting transformative technology that I want it to get into. And so that has changed my life in a huge fucking way. And it kind of felt that way right as I was reading it and as I finished it so to me that was the first one that that's what kicked it all off.

Roy: 3:50

Yeah, that's a big one. I mean, it changed my life to like you read it and then you send it to me and I must have read it within a couple of days. And now so

Jamie: 4:00

I was already in the group chat that we're in then we talked about you must not have been in it yet. Right? I'm

Roy: 4:06

good month or so before I go into that.

Jamie: 4:10

Yeah, I was already in the chat and going oh my god, I cannot believe how stupid of things My friends are spending money on right now.

Roy: 4:18

Yeah, I mean, one of them was is stupid the Bull Run babes.

Jamie: 4:22

Yes, that's true.

Roy: 4:24

And you were sort of relaying information to me. I distinctly remember you asked me It must have been early February something if I knew what a hash mosque was. And I was like, No, I have literally no idea what that is. And I think you started explaining and maybe send some screenshots of like the price what they were and the prices and I was like this is ridiculous. And then I saw some of like the Bull Run babes with like leveling up and paying more for like getting it to next level. I was like, this is this is like a cult. This is

Jamie: 4:50

sort of like a thing where like if you traded in five of the low level ones you get like a gold in the trade and five of the gold you get a rainbow or whatever,

Roy: 4:59

who just know that too. similar stuff that's happening now it's not been making.

Jamie: 5:04

So that was my first one.

Roy: 5:06

You said February 22? How do you know the date? So specifically, I just came out

Jamie: 5:11

with power to the gas when it came out. But I mean, I've subscribed to them. So it must have been, you know, either that day or within probably three days of it. I'm thinking, okay. It also tracks in my mind with approximately when this all happened for me. Yeah, I could actually check because I think I bought the punks. Tokens, like three days later, or something like that. Maybe?

Roy: 5:32

Yeah, I did that too. That was a was a whole like it was. So I remember asking you because I read the article as well. And you were like talking about getting some punks tokens. And I was thinking, Hey, that's a great idea I want them to, and then I asked you how to do it. And I think he sent me a screenshot that one of a mutual friend said

Jamie: 5:50

sent me basically copy and paste what he said. And he made so little sense.

Roy: 5:54

It was like, Well, you just, I mean, use metamask, and then go to sushiswap, wrap some ether. You know, find the token and just write by

Jamie: 6:05

FTX pool. It's Yes. So confusing. Now, I was like, You got to learn a lot more than this, if you want me to get into it.

Roy: 6:12

Yeah, I actually I think about that quite frequently. Now when I try and like put myself in the shoes of the, like, just someone new to this space, and just how difficult that learning curve really is.

Jamie: 6:21

And it really has not improved much since then, hasn't it? It's still pretty fucking difficult. For the most part, I guess things like Moonpay and stuff are kind of making it easier. And Coinbase I'm sure will make it easier once their marketplace is out.

Roy: 6:34

Yeah, it's getting it's getting slightly better. And I think there's definitely like more and better like educational content out there. Just just like

Jamie: 6:42

ZenAcademy, they will, ya know,

Roy: 6:45

there's that. But even just like, typing in NFT's into YouTube and finding videos, like obviously, there's not great YouTube videos out there. But

Jamie: 6:53

there's a lot as well, a lot of bad crypto information on YouTube.

Roy: 6:57

Yeah, I mean, if you're looking for stuff like, uh, you know, which NFT should I buy and invest in? Yeah, there's a lot of junk out there. But if you're looking specifically for like how to install meta mask, how to add a token how to, you know, just the real, the logistical stuff, I think there's good information and it's the ones that have like lots of views and good comments. They're, like very likely to be trustworthy and and see you're in the right direction. But yeah, that that that was a good one. That was a really good first highlight. I don't know if mine I don't know if it's a highlight per se, but it's a highlight in that it really stands out in my mind a lot. And it's the rare pizzas NFT drop.

Jamie: 7:37

Oh, yeah. It was I must have been on some vacation during that because I remember like walking around behind the people. I was on this trip with, like reading about what you guys are getting into. I was like, This sounds not that cool. You guys are very into it.

Roy: 7:52

I think there were just so few projects back then. Yeah, that really round one. And we're like, it's an NFT project. We found it early. It's got a bonding curve or like

Jamie: 8:02

that color one two. I don't know if you remember that.

Roy: 8:05

Yeah, they're like you buy a color for $5 And

Jamie: 8:08

yeah, and I tried to get one of you guys to get all the colors that yeah

Roy: 8:16

I know I didn't buy any if I put some in my cart like several times then I guess I didn't follow through because the Colorado's Yeah, though $5 each and then gas gonna be so ridiculous. It just, I thankfully, never pull the trigger.

Jamie: 8:30

Or seem so ridiculous at the time. Right. But nowadays, it must have been cheap as hell. Yeah, it

Roy: 8:36

would have been. I think so. I don't know.

Jamie: 8:40

Something was happening, I guess. Rarepizzas

Roy: 8:42

though. It was this project. It does sound Yeah, it sounds gimmicky and silly. Basically, the whole thing was they wanted to celebrate a Bitcoin Pizza Day, which I believe is May 22, which is the day that the anniversary, the anniversary of when an individual paid for two pizzas with 10,000 Bitcoin, you know, 10 plus years ago, and or maybe, maybe not quite 10 years ago? I don't know.

Jamie: 9:15

Anyway, I think 2008 or something. So yeah, it might have been.

Roy: 9:19

And yes, so they said we're going to launch an NFT we'll sell the box so you can buy the box and then we'll you know you'll you'll get the pizza later. And we'll use the funds to create a DAO and then we're going to order pizzas for just people all around the world. And like you know, they'll network with pizzerias and pizza shops and, and try and get free pizza into the hands of more people. Yeah, it's a cool idea. It just like the pricing and bonding curve was so insane. It was like they were trying to sell 10,000

Jamie: 9:52

points. There used to be a lot of those bonding curves or FOMO FOMO Reily. Right.

Roy: 9:58

They were all the rage because hash masks did and that sort of is one of the things that kicked off this new new mania phase of entities in the beginning of the year. But yeah, I'm pretty sure their bonding curve was that although the firm rather, because slight tangent bonding curves technically require the ability for you to sell back to the curve. So everyone keeps calling these firmer ramps bonding curves, because the price just goes up as more will get minted. But that's not technically a bonding curve anyway. The 10,000th Mint, they're gonna price it at 10,000 Bitcoin, not 10,000 Bitcoin. That's amazing. So they just had this ram where it got to like, I don't know if it was like 400 or like 1500 or some relatively small number, and it was just really struggling to sell understandably because

Jamie: 10:49

there was a $50 million

Roy: 10:58

yes, no, it's a 500 million.

Jamie: 11:02

Either way, it's too much for NFT

Roy: 11:06

B, no pizza box and if t so we bought these pizza boxes in I think March. I still have not received my pizza. I think you can claim them on the website now. But like they're worthless, because no one's buying one secondary or anything. And oh, boy. It was fun. Like I minted I think two just because it was an NFT and I was so excited about NFT's and minting and finding a project it was so difficult to find projects that weren't that many projects. You know, I spent a lot of time in their discord. I wasn't in many discord. I was like, I found a discord. I was like, Hey, I found one. I'm gonna just read everything and hang out. And it was it was a chaotic discord. They still around there, I still see people on Twitter with like, red pizza dough in the profile. And I mean, I don't know what they have cooking. Haha, for next year, but it kind of would make sense if they try and make this an annual thing. I could see it. You know,

Jamie: 12:01

universe party thing is sort of like utility before most NFT's even had the idea that they needed to add some utility to it, which is vaguely interesting. Yeah,

Roy: 12:12

I mean, if they sold it if they just sold the 10,000 or whatever. No,

Jamie: 12:17

that was it. I didn't have upon there to Yeah. If they just

Roy: 12:21

sold the 10k Like, you know, 0.1 eth each. That would have sold out I'm sure. And anyway.

Jamie: 12:30

Yeah, it could be a super successful valuable project right now if he could be only if only everything was different. Yeah.

Roy: 12:38

Yeah, I still have one of the boxes I actually found a few nights ago. I was like going through my portfolio in like reverse order by agency.

Jamie: 12:45

I remember like looking at pictures of some of the pizzas from you guys. And they had like smiley faces and stuff. Oh, they were not good. But But I understand you're saying you had a box but not a pizza. But why was I looking at pizzas? How did that?

Roy: 12:57

So on their website, they had like a generator, where you could click a button and just randomly generate a pizza, but I don't think that was that was like a those are representation that was yes. Net. Okay. It was very testing it. I think it was like, you know, iteration zero version 0.1 or whatever. It was like they're gonna get more out us and refine the way I think I haven't seen the final copies. I would hope that they've improved since then. Because yeah, they did not look great. But yeah, it was one of my first NFT's. So holds a special place in my heart.

Jamie: 13:32

If a second NFT I ever minted I've talked about this many times before, but that one is always gonna have a special place in my heart.

Roy: 13:40

stipple sunset 112.

Jamie: 13:42

Correct. Yeah. Even you haven't ever Yes. It's pretty sick. Yeah. And I think it actually is the one now that the artblocks projects are separated on open see, the thumbnail picture, I believe is of 112 which is

Roy: 13:57

cool. That's very cool. All right. What's another one? Oh, that's

Jamie: 14:01

my second one. And this is going to set expectations bad because I also have the date for this one, but it's the last day but on June 29. Tyler Hobbs bought abstract of the day number 18 was so crazy and fun and exciting at the time. So Tyler Hobbs for those that don't know, although I assume most of our listeners do is the artists behind the fidenza most famous of all artblocks projects, maybe you could argue Squibbles is more famous. Regardless, it had come out probably two weeks before that or something like that. And you factor into the story, but I had messaged you and said hey, like, Do you have any ideas for something I should just try to do for my abstractive day because I wanted to, you know, push myself outside of my comfort zone and just kind of try new things and not necessarily just what I instinctively was going to do. Because I was trying to you know grow as a digital artist. And he said, Do something inspired by fidenza. And I said, Okay, so I did one. And in the description of it, I basically said exactly what I just said that, you know, I loved Fidenzas I wanted one, I asked my friend this and they said, This bottle blah. And later that day after I minted it, somebody in the Artblocks discord had like search for Fidenza's on open sea. And one of the first results that came up was this NFT of mine, the abstract of the day number 18. And they posted a Tyler Hobbes's channel in the in the discord server on artblocks, and said, Hey, look at somebody's trying to profit off of Fidenzas or whatever. And then they rock but at least they're only charging point 01 ether, they're not trying to scam him for too much. So it just became like a little bit of a thing. And then somebody's like, oh, actually, that's Jamie musings, I think he's, I think he's a member of the server. And then Tyler, you know, got alerted to it from there, and went to it, and then saw my description of it, about why I did it, and how much I love fidenza was like, Oh, this is actually like, pretty fucking cool. It's not, it's not some person trying to pass this off as if it's a fidenza. And then he bought it, which was really cool and exciting. And that was, it felt kind of validating even though, you know, probably, he's buying it a lot more, because it means something to him, rather than my art. Although I do also like it, it came out nice, even though it's really basically just me copying like one of the pallets and making something that looks very Fidenzie with it. And then as just like a little bit of a follow up on that. And then on August 25, he made a vault account. And he did he was willing to spend the gas in a vault account, so it still means something to him. Yeah, that was cool, too.

Roy: 16:48

That's very cool. You jumped ahead a lot in the time from February to June. Yeah. Are you going to be jumping back? Or...

Jamie: 16:58

I put this vaguely in order. But, um, it does actually seem like a lot of it is all kind of happening around this time when our blocks is really going crazy. Like, a lot of my stuff is centered in that area.

Roy: 17:11

Okay. I have a bunch sort of before then, but maybe maybe to talk about all of

Jamie: 17:17

them. My memory is probably also not quite as sharp as yours. But yeah, I think we're also maybe just kind of picking different types of things for highlights or whatever. Yeah, fine.

Roy: 17:28

Yeah. So next I have like the what I'm calling the platinum spirit era. Platinum spirit is the most

Jamie: 17:35

thought about doing is that thing because I had a lot of fun with first disciple for a while there. Oh, yeah. And like the drops when I finally was able to get some of the Genesis horses from a drop. That was fun.

Roy: 17:45

Yeah, those drops are like crazy chaotic and so terrible. But if you got one so exciting.

Jamie: 17:52

Yeah. So I'm just gonna interrupt you. Yeah. But like the one of the things specifically that I remember is that on the drops out, get them and like my plan was, I'm just going to hold them. And the really exciting part was when I gave up on that idea, it might last three days or whatever, but you know what, maybe I should just raise one of them. That's really good. And that was really exciting when I decided to just quit being boring and get back into the gambling habit and see if the horse is any good.

Roy: 18:19

Yeah, and it like the game was so much fun just racing, entering horses and watching it race like I was very excited by it for a very long time.

Jamie: 18:32

I visuals and the Sounders Yeah, it was just so cool. Like that's pleasant for Yeah,

Roy: 18:37

it looked really good. It sounds really good. And then, you know, if you were fortunate enough to have a horse that could run profitably. It was just, you know, cherry on the top, which platinum is very it was so I got very lucky in the first Zedrun drop that I participated in. I think it was early April. I think it was the last one they had on Main net before they moved to Polygon, maybe. But I can't definitely remember that. Anyway, I got lucky. I think I got like three or four Genesis horses Z eights to 10s or something. And one of them was platinum spirit and I raced and just, you know, killed it. And back in those days, you could search the Zedrun on Discord, they had a bot that would post the odds after each race of what all the horses like there was a winning. And you know, Platinum spirit has consistently had like, really, really good odds. In every race, basically, it didn't matter the distance, it didn't matter. The class even was just winning. And so, you know, my bankroll was not big at this time. And the like the racing was set up that you could enter three races at a time. And there was no fatigue or anything so you could race basically as many times as you could In a day, you're just racing all day. I was literally racing 24/7 Because when I went to sleep, I passed the the tablet to Rachel, she'd use my PC and she entered platinum spirit into races. I think at one point, peninsular was being raised like 100 times a day. And in one of the months, I made like two or three eth, which was in I mean, it is an enormous amount of money, but it was like, extremely enormous to me back then. And in comparison, my bankroll and everything. So, yeah, I was loving life. There was a small moment where I was contemplating selling platinum spirit, someone. You know, do

Jamie: 20:35

I remember you you having some discussions with people? Yeah,

Roy: 20:38

I mean, just because if I sold, it would have been a significant boost to my bankroll. I really didn't know how to price it like at all. I remember I DM so many people in the Zed Run space back then, like, people I found, like, who did Twitch streams and had big Twitter profiles and big stables just ask for their advice on how they would value it. And it was very difficult for people to value it because there was just so many unknowns, just in the, at the time and for the future. But

Jamie: 21:09

yeah, any reading was like, yeah, for a lot of time, we didn't know how the algorithm worked. It was unclear. Like how big in terms of Biden's races, whatever, again, like there was just, there still are really, but yeah, even that there was even more unknown unknowns than

Roy: 21:27

unknown unknowns. Yeah, I was chatting to someone, and we got pretty close, I think the largest amount they offered was four and a half eth or five eth. And I think this was at a time when the lifetime net winnings was something between 0.5 and one eth. And, you know, I had platinum spirit for like, a month by that point. So it was a significant amount of money. I ended up not selling I can't remember, if I had a specific reason why, why I didn't. But um, yeah, and then like the next month, Platinum spirit earned three ether or something. And life was very, very good at that time. Yeah, and then try to remember why I stopped, I think what happened was, they had a like a couple more drops, and it basically so that the period when I was racing, 100 times a day, you would enter a race, and like the race would begin, like three to 10 minutes later. And then after a couple of drops, just with that many more new horses and new races, just trying to race and especially after breeding, it became a case where you'd enter a race, and then the race wouldn't begin for 12 hours. So you'd like you'd enter three races and then you know, check at night, and then see how you did in the entrance. And it also like, obviously became less profitable for me and probably healthier for the ecosystem. But it just became less fun. Just because like you want to enter a race, then you want to watch it and okay, you're going to enter and then what set alarms to watch. I was like, I did that sometimes. But I also remember a

Jamie: 22:57

lot of it being that you're just getting more into minting new NFT projects and flipping them and holding some and, and checking rarities and, and just getting more into the space that way. And using your time that way. is sort of more how I remember you drifting away from racing so much.

Roy: 23:17

Yeah, I mean, it's gonna happen

Jamie: 23:19

tighter. But

Roy: 23:21

like if, because, you know, I couldn't raise plugins, but 100 times a day, I just had all this extra time, where I felt like I wasn't doing anything productive. And then so I got into flipping so it was probably a blessing in disguise. You know, had I been able to race plugins for non stop, I might still be racing that horses and hating life, given the direction the whole company's taken. But yeah, we

Jamie: 23:46

just released a big 2022 thing today. And if you saw that,

Roy: 23:50

yeah, I suppose you said something about how you'll be able to retire horses in exchange.

Jamie: 23:54

Oh, yeah. They, yeah, they they picked up an idea that I had had a while ago. I'm sure a lot of people had I don't want to act like it's very original. But basically, you can retire a horse and you'll get these actual Zedd tokens that they're finally going to release, which you can use to enter races and or breed

Roy: 24:12

since they've announced that they're actually releasing a token. Yes. ecosystem. That's good. The Yeah, yeah. Cool. I mean, that was a good, I would say one to two months. And it sort of extended beyond just like me sitting at home raising Platon spirit. You know, it was in this phase when I was very much transitioning from professional poker player to being in the NFT and crypto space.

Jamie: 24:39

Yeah, I remember that. That be like the Zed time was very much on the cusp of I'm still playing online tournaments. But this is starting to seem like there's more potential.

Roy: 24:49

I can make, you know, relatively consistent money doing it and it's more fun and interesting, and there's more potential. And you know, when I would be out with people and trying to explain to them, you know, hey, I'm not really playing poker anymore. Like, I'm into NFT's, Oh, whatever. And

Jamie: 25:06

I'm racing a digital horse. Yes, I

Roy: 25:08

was, like, I would literally say I'm a digital horse race, so and then you actually pull out your phone and show them a race. And it was like it was. Yeah. It was cool. There's just so many cool things now, in the space.

Jamie: 25:22

Yeah, I definitely have had friends that are not particularly interested in NFT's but will enjoy watching a Zed race. It just it feels a little bit more real and interactive and useful than, like a profile picture project, which doesn't make any sense to a lot of people still. Yeah, yeah. All right. Um, my next one is probably something that is somewhere on your list, but it's basically the entrance of Vincent Van Gogh onto the art block scene. And, and the excitement that was happening in Block Talk, as, as all of that was happening. I will No, I don't think I'll ever forget that. And I have like a couple of very specific memories of like, just where I was, at different times following it and and just how much fun and excitement that was. And it was validating to Yeah.

Roy: 26:18

Because I remember for like, I don't know, six weeks prior to that. You were like, getting ready to go all in on Elementals. The I spent so much time bidding on Elementals. And you know, a lot of eel. Hmm. And you picked up like 12 of them, right?

Jamie: 26:35

Yeah, I think I had 11 at my peak. And I didn't necessarily have a good reason to think that they would ever be worth anything. Other than that, I thought, relative to the prices of other artblocks project that was like, this looks good to me, and looks accessible to me in a way that a lot of this other art doesn't. So if the other stuff is valued correctly, I think that these are undervalued, that was basically my entire financial thought process behind it, other than just appreciating the art and liking it and bidding on it for that sake. And I didn't really have a reason to believe that the market would necessarily ever agree with me, but it seemed like, you know, it wasn't going to be costly. To me, it's it seemed like I you know, I might be able to sell for a 25% loss if everything went terrible or whatever. Like it seemed. Yeah, also, because I was doing such, you know, under bidding of the floor across many, many pieces and hoping to find sellers that way. I felt like I had kind of a built in safety net. But yeah, it was a thing where I had a ton of these stipple sunsets already. And I was acquiring a ton of these Elementals. And like prices, were not going up meaningfully at all and then basically, Vincent bando came on the scene, as prices had been I don't even really remember them ramping up that much before he got there. And then just going kind of crazy.

Roy: 28:02

They had ramped up I think a decent amount before he got there. It was sort of like it kicked off with the fidenza and the I want to say Sotheby's auction maybe was Christie's the basically the same in my mind.

Jamie: 28:14

Right Like I remember the the the Sotheby's or Christie's whichever one was first, I think it was Sotheby's, by the way, didn't didn't make prices go up much at all, like people were predicting. And the collection didn't sell for all that much either. But I do kind of remember, like, I remember the elementals I was getting a lot of them for around like point twoish. And I think maybe they had gotten up to like, point four or something like that, by the time Vincent van Gogh came around and got them really going.

Roy: 28:49

Yeah, the way I remember it is that during the Sotheby's auction, you know, the there wasn't a lot of price activity on the auction, you know, sentiment was still relatively low, it was cooled, there was Sotherby's, etc, etc. It sold out the very next day fidenza dropped. And you know, people in the public Cisco were loving it. There were a few days of price discovery where fidenza has hovered around just below and just above the one eth mark, excuse me. But then like within a week, that sort of quickly rocketed up between two to four. And it was just like, that was it and then, you know, went up to six, and then to 20, and then back down to 12. And then, you know, all the projects were going up, and then somewhere along the way, Vincent van Gogh entered, and the rest of the NFT market was going through this massive blow off top at the same time, people were making ludicrous amounts of money on like, peripheral bigger projects. And you know, some people were funneling that into artblocks, you know, myself included, and it was just, you know, everything on artblocks was starting to sell out like, you know, there had been 2030 collections open at once and people would just like be in blocked talk or be in art books, mins and be like, hey, you know, what about this collection? Let's look at this. Oh, hey, that's cool mint. Oh, did you realize it's animated or interactive? Hey, that's really cool. Let's go. And then just a Mint Mint Mint. And then you know, a collection with mint out and everyone have a great time. And yeah, it was just such a fun period.

Jamie: 30:11

It was. And one of the things that I also specifically remember is how fun it was, when that commenter on your substack got turned into being correct, even though it started off as somebody who are mocking. So you had written a post about artblocks on your substack back when you wrote on that thing, and one commenter had had asked you, hey, has artblock sold out? And that time, it was a very humorous, very ridiculous question, because I was like, This person doesn't even understand how artblocks work. Yeah, there must have been 20 projects open at the time or something like yeah, idea of art blocks being sold out. That's not how it works, dude. And then sure enough, like six weeks later, artblocks was sold out. Like, oh, my God, they were

Roy: 31:00

so crazy.

Jamie: 31:01

So that was just that was so funny to me.

Roy: 31:03

Yeah, that whole period was like you I will never forget it. I distinctly remember. Yeah, I mean, I had it on my list as well. I had it as the app looks mania from June to September, but like I would say specifically, like, late July, early August, I think is when things really just got absolutely absurd. And yeah, I mean, I was just, I think there were two days, when one or two days when I was just sitting in my computer, I had block talk open with the sales bot that was you know, showing all the sales, Ivan's vendors going crazy. People, you know, a thing and after it, other whales were jumping in here and there. And like, I had invested so much time and money into artblocks at this point, and had so much conviction in it, I guess, as like, just like you said it was validating. But it was just also like, literally in real time, I was sort of witnessing myself go from being like, monitored, moderately well off and like decently financially positioned to like just having more money than I ever thought I would have in my life within like a day or two. And I was just like,

Jamie: 32:14

it felt so crazy. Yeah. And like the the time that I had sort of spent drifting away from poker and drifting into NFT's, was so thoroughly like, up in the air as to whether or not this was going to be a worthwhile thing. Yeah. And like the my ape and artblocks, both kind of really just started taking off at the same time, it was it was sharper for artblocks. But, you know, I also talked about this on the podcast, how the fact that they were both going up really allowed me to not feel like I had to sell the other one going up. Because if just one had gone up, it would seem more like, oh, I should probably sell this and kind of position myself better. But they both kind of went up nicely, and allowed me to kind of just diamond hand everything for the most part,

Roy: 33:10

Oh, do you think we'll ever see something like that, again, with artblocks or with the NFT market?

Jamie: 33:17

I don't know, probably not to that extent, for something that's like, as big as artblocks. Because, you know, it's it's so many collections, and they were all sort of going at once. I could imagine something where like an individual project, let's just say for instance, gutter cat gang, or something like that has a similarly explosive run up for, you know, a multi week period or one month period. But in terms of like an entire ecosystem. And I guess it was also sort of happening for nifty gateway before we got involved. I don't know if you've kind of heard about how crazy that caught for a while. But I think they were having a similar thing in like, January, February, maybe as our clocks ended up having in like, July and August. I've heard that. But I don't know that we'll ever have something like that. That's sort of ecosystem wide again, because I just don't foresee new capital coming in quick enough and also being educated into a specific thing enough, you know what I mean? And then you know, the the money and eyeballs that are already in NFT's they just have too many projects right now. For one to be able to capture that much of the Zeitgeist and The capital at any one time is sort of how I feel.

Roy: 34:44

It really was insane. Just like I would go into any of my like alpha discords or discords were people talking about what's missing today? And just everyone was talking about our blocks like all the time, it was just a Magical magical time. Yeah, I mean, we've sort of spoken, I think off air about like, whether we regret not selling more at like the peaks. And we both sold a reasonable amount, I think, to not feel terrible about not selling more. Yeah, yeah,

Jamie: 35:17

I definitely could have sold more. But I did find and then I, you know, what I would really help to actually is I managed to sell the two fragments of the infinite field at really, really opportune times. Which helped a ton.

Roy: 35:32

Yeah. Yeah, that was really Yeah. I mean, that that was sort of like the last project. I think that went truly crazy. Before we hit this sort of, like, multi month bear

Jamie: 35:41

sounds great to me. I'm trying to think, if any, are to

Roy: 35:47

Meridian might have been after that. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie: 35:53

I think it was shortly thereafter. And, you know, even sculptors for a second were acting like they would for like nine or something really quickly, very quickly. Yeah. And then they tanked but pulled back super quick as well.

Roy: 36:07

Yeah. Whof

Jamie: 36:10

Boy, Marina was mining. So it's up to you now. All

Roy: 36:13

right, that was yours. Um, let me look at my list. That was such a good highlight. I'm going to go back in time. Because I remember fondly this sort of era where it was the gutter cats, like you mentioned, the the bonds I Zedrun, NFT bonsai trees, and the ape only ape drops. So this was like, pre, I guess he only came like first. But then these other terms, like in my mind, the role roughly around the same time where I was just first getting into sort of like flipping NFTS and buying them and checking rarities. I mean, it took me a long time to even, you know, realize that the where to find the rarities and things like that, like, and I wasn't looking at any like rarity tool sites. I don't even know that I don't even know if they existed then. But things like the trait said, I think they probably did. But yeah, I wasn't, I would just look at the traits on OpenSea and be like, Oh, this is 1%. And this is point 2%. And there's only six of these that seems rarer. And just spending hours looking through connection collections, talking to people in discord, seeing what other people liked. I remember with the Bonzais that quite quickly formed this like, story and community around like the four trait ones, which are like the super simple ones that don't have a pet don't have. I don't know, any fruit on the trees or something like that. And how people valued that higher even though it wasn't like specifically in the traits. And yeah, I mean with the apes, ape, only ape. So before the board apes are members, like just spending hours looking through them all trying to find while you're Korean tacos, I was very into them. I thought it was like a slam dunk. Like, it seemed like it was low enough supply 999 apes, and it had this whole, like, I was like, apes are a great thing, because people ape into collections and had that storyline. And then it had this cool bone mechanic where you could trade one in for a physical, like a metal print of your ape, which is very cool. And no one else was really doing anything physical at the time. The community was great, and chill and all of it. So yeah, I went very hard on them. And then unfortunately, he was stubborn when the board apes came along and didn't really meant, well, maybe fortunately, because maybe if I mentioned I would have flipped them all and wouldn't be in the position. Possible. Yeah. Having bought in so I mean, it's hard to look up at anything tissue with regret considering how well the end result is turned out. But um, yeah, I remember that whole era of just first getting into like flipping and checking traits, and, you know, minting and then the reveal and seeing what you get, and then just following the secondary market for a few hours afterwards. And it was at a time when there weren't like 50 collections dropping a day. So attention wasn't divided. It was like everyone again, it was like, two or

Jamie: 39:05

three a week. Really? Yeah, I mean, it was Oh, yeah. Whoo. Coming up on Thursday, we're gonna have artblock one like, it wasn't, it was so different.

Roy: 39:13

And the whole community was just like, focused on this one job. And then yeah, yeah. Nostalgia. Good. Oh,

Jamie: 39:20

that was that was fun. Yeah.

Roy: 39:24

All right. That's mine.

Jamie: 39:26

So my, my next one is like a little bit vague, in that it's not one specific memory, but I wrote down various days where I was extremely pleased with my abstract of the day, because, you know, I you know, I've talked about this almost ad nauseum here, but just how much I enjoy making art and how little of it I did before I got into NFT's. And then to all the sudden be creating art every single day was it was just It's such a different experience for me. And probably, I would say one out of every five to eight or so of them that I mentioned, I would just really, really love and be just feel really good about the art that I had created. And, and sort of surprised and delighted with what came out. And I also like, have been sort of actively trying a lot of new stuff through it. So anytime I would make one that was that I felt really good about and was very different from what I had previously created. That was just super exciting for me. And that was something that I kind of got to feel over and over again this year. And it's always been awesome. That's really cool that I actually started writing down the specific ones. But there was kind of too many. And that's so then I just kind of tried to approximate the fraction and it seemed like it was a little bit more than one out of every 10 but not a lot more where I just went. Wow, like I feel really good about this.

Roy: 41:02

Yeah, that's such a nice like fulfilling rewarding feeling. I imagine. Yeah, it was great. Just yeah. That's a great highlight. I guess I'm going to get to ZenAcademy a little later. Oh, like i It'll be my last one. But I want to touch on I wouldn't call this a highlight but it's it's a memory that definitely distinctly stands out in my mind. And that's missing the cool cats. Now,

Jamie: 41:32

I'm actually gonna bet that it's funny is like a highlight.

Roy: 41:35

Yeah, I'm going to pull up a tweet. On June 27 2021@coolcatsnft. So the official cool cats DMS me. Hey man, just wanted to introduce me and the cool cats team. We're launching on Thursday and 20% of ETH will be making its way back to the community. Cool Cats gen one are based around Blue Cat birth by the cartoonist club over seven years ago. We're really serious about building our community and brand and offerings. If you're interested, please join the discord. Have a great Sunday and see you on the blockchain. My response? Hey, thanks for reaching out. These look pretty cute and fun. There are so many cat projects now though. Ha. It's a bit of an unfortunate time to be launching perhaps how long you've been working on this project for and what is the mint size price going to be? And then they replied .06 and data and I said I'll definitely keep an eye on this. Yeah, the market is super saturated. But every now and then a diamond project sneaks through hurt that's you. And then I didn't mince any wow so close.

Jamie: 42:37

I know. I'm gonna lower the price. I don't know if you're

Roy: 42:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went from .06 to .02 I guess because I guess because I want something

Jamie: 42:47

on your right now. There's so many projects.

Roy: 42:51

So many projects. I think basically at that time I was either in or just about to go to Turkey for a little holiday the vacation I was going on, because I remember that. We were in Capitol IKEA and I saw that cool cats were going absolutely ballistic. I mean, like, point four point three I think was the floor. And in my mind. Yeah, I knew at this point that that means it had point a true and that they had dammed me and that I had missed it. And I was feeling all sorts of crazy FOMO and I ended up I was meant to be like completely off anything but I broke my rule and bought I think two cool cats at the point three mark, and it was still a not insignificant amount of money for me at the time. But yeah, I did that. And then later on. I got a couple more. So again, it worked out fine and great, but it is just funny that we have correspondents now.

Jamie: 43:47

Yeah. To look like Tyler DMS. Yeah. He's going hey, yeah. artblocks curator project coming out. It's like really like I swear I'm a great generative artist. All right, pal. I see a lot of generative art. Alright, I'll maybe I'll get around to mid ticket. Yeah. Oh, boy. That is funny. Yeah. So my next one I wrote down here, fancy Barcelona dinner finding out about mega serum and excited anticipation. I we were at this dinner together in Barcelona, the night that the serums and the mutants were coming out. And there was very little information before but as we were at the dinner, we saw the serums actually get released. They didn't get distributed, but we saw them get released. And so we got to see there's this many M ones. There's this many M twos. And then there's only like I think it was eight maybe of these M threes and it was just Yeah, it was so exciting to speculate on whether or not we would get an M three even though obviously, the math was very clear that like there was no real reason for us to do it. because the odds were so far against us, it was just so exciting. And we had been kind of looking forward to the mutants for a while. That was just, you know, a thing in the in the community that we knew about. But like, we had so little idea about the mechanisms. And when when we got to see how crazily rare those M threes were, it was just so exciting for me to know that we had that chance, even though it was super tiny. And that was also the same day that Steph Curry had got in and prices. You know what, I think we went to bed and the floor was like 48. And it was like 60. Yeah, time the mutants were actually dropping. And it was just that that was sort of the, the ape equivalent of that artblocks like Mega Bull Run kind of all squeezed into one day, plus this exciting drop that we were going to be a part of and get to see.

Roy: 45:49

Yeah, I have that on my list too. I just wrote mutants are insane. Because they are and they were and that day was insane. Like, yeah, and

Jamie: 45:58

the beatbox is dropped that day. And you tried to meet them at the table as well. Oh, yeah.

Roy: 46:03

Oh, I have one of those now, uh, one of the artists sold that I tweeted that I got some VR and he DM me and said that he'd love to send me a beatbox. And I Yeah, it was very generous offer and I accept it. And I haven't had a chance to use it yet. But I'm very excited to try it out. Because I love VR now. And I was very excited for that drop, but never ended up getting on. So.

Jamie: 46:28

Yeah, hear how it is? Yeah.

Roy: 46:30

But it on the mutants being insane like that, that dinner was sort of so exciting. But for me, like I was awake for like nine hours more after that. Just because I don't know, I was up to like midnight just normally. And then I think that's when like the announcement was made that, hey, it's not just the serums we are stealth dropping a Dutch auction for mutants starting at three eth. And it was this, this feeling I have never seen before in the NFT space. And never since where there was this liquidity instant liquidity sock out of literally every single

Jamie: 47:08

project tons of people are selling tons of stuff, just trying to scrape together the money to get some mutants. It was just like I was busy socializing the by any. I was like I got one with a serum. I'm gonna just be a friend here. Meanwhile, you're you ended up getting like seven or something. And I was but also okay with it.

Roy: 47:27

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was doing the same. I was like liquidate and trying to scramble whatever eth I could get together. minted seven and got seven like, relatively common ones. And boy, like, you know, a

Jamie: 47:41

couple months later, it seems pretty poor decision. Almost. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's the initial price. They never really got below that. But they they rocketed up pretty fast, pretty quick and then pulled back and they didn't really get in fashion again, until like, twoish weeks ago or something. It feels like, yeah, I

Roy: 48:02

would say off to NFT.NYC they started taking off. And then it like when people realize the sort of the IRL utility was largely the same for mutants versus apes. And a lot of people were saying mutants were like very underpriced, because they were around, I think, three eth at the time. And they've now been proven right? And yeah, it makes total sense,

Jamie: 48:22

the ratio is maybe like half of what it was, then it'll be very interesting to see how they decide to distribute a coin, like so much speculation. And it's it's very hard to know, that'll really, I think, dictate a lot.

Roy: 48:37

I wonder if they'll base it on the full price ratio at the time so as to not like disturb the market? In?

Jamie: 48:44

Yeah, I, I feel like they'll have their own idea and let the market react to it. That's more My instinct is that they they let us drive the boat by kind of creating value or whatever. But in terms of what the market wants to value stuff that I think they are more apt to ignore that if it doesn't align with how valuable they think they should be, in terms of a ratio or whatever.

Roy: 49:12

Yeah, I guess we'll see. We could see tomorrow. Theoretically,

Jamie: 49:17

Oh, yeah. Well, gosh, we're right at the end of the year. Well, yeah, we will see soon. q1. So probably

Roy: 49:23

in a couple of months. I guess that was yours. Um, I have have so many more, but I'm going to skip a few of these. I only have two more, just FYI. Okay. I'm gonna say build buying and building my plot on cryptovoxels. So cryptovoxels is a Metaverse like probably the OG metaverse. And for the longest certainly

Jamie: 49:46

the first one that I know of, but yeah, that doesn't mean a ton

Roy: 49:50

ever since like I first tried it and like went and walked around and I just thought it was so cool. Just like being in this metaverse. And like, you know, it was Like walking around in a game, but like, all of these assets were real assets owned by us and like NFT's, and I was like, This is amazing. And I really, really, really, really wanted one and I could never really afford slash justify one. Because I think the very cheapest ones was still over one. eth. And, you know, these are on the, you know, the islands, not the the, the main margin city. Yeah. And then again, I'll say mutual friend who always keep referring to posted in a group chat that there was this plot for I think, like 1.2 or 1.4. Anyway, low one point something eth. And, yeah, he said it was goodbye, I had a quick look at it. And yeah, I ended up pulling the trigger, I think I had some liquidity from somewhere. Because it was rare for me to have, you know, an eth. Sitting around just, it was for the longest time was very difficult. It still is to keep eth in a meta mask wallet and not put it all into NFT's. But yeah, it's gotten easier as time has gone on, I guess. But yeah, no, I bought it. And then I had so much fun, like building on it, just creating, like art galleries and placing my NFT's and seeing how it worked. And just hanging out there and sharing it with other people. And, you know, I have thought about getting another plot and doing it again, and I probably will at some point, but yeah, I mean, now there's so many metaverses to consider. It's

Jamie: 51:21

there are Yeah, well, and all of them give you so much more land per plot, basically, in cryptovoxels, that it seems tough to think that that's gonna be the place to go.

Roy: 51:32

Yeah, but it's seeming like it's gonna carve out a niche for itself at least.

Jamie: 51:37

Yeah, I mean, who knows? Yeah, how any of this is gonna kind of shake out in the end?

Roy: 51:43

Who indeed. Alright, that was a quick one for me.

Jamie: 51:48

So I have one here that's a little bit vulgar, that I'm not sure if I need to share it or not. I'm

Roy: 51:55

very curious.

Jamie: 51:57

So. And I actually tried to look through the group chat to find the exact quotes and stuff, I could not find it. But anyway, there was a point in our group chat that we talked about frequently, where I had posted like three or four, maybe our POCs projects that I like, was really interested in or wanted to buy something from or something to that effect. And one of our friends in the group said, like something about what do all three of these projects have in common? Do you remember this?

Roy: 52:29

I don't think so.

Jamie: 52:30

Okay, so basically, they all seem that there was like a circular nature to them, is what I figured out from it. Although this is not specifically what they said. And I basically was doing like a psychoanalysis thing, where I was going, like, you know, saying that this person was implying that the reason that I was interested in all these is because they looked like buttholes or something. And then our other friend was, was chiming in, and good, like, Well, from my point of view here, like you, you guys are both butthole obsessed. It was kind of funny, but but then, you know, after we had our laughs, and joked around about like me trying to get into this guy's head of what he thought that I thought about this art, and then our other impartial observer friend, seeing both of it, I then sent a spiral fidenza picture into the group. And I was like, yeah, that's all fine and good. But like, does anybody else here want to stick their dick in this fidenza. And we all laughed very hard at that. And that was just a specific, very funny moment of just kind of enjoying random nft talk with my friends. And then I also have slash. And this actually kind of relates back to what you were just saying about how hard it is to have eth and not put it into NFT's. But our other smaller group chat with our friend, Matt. We were talking about like investing a little bit more in NFTs and he said something to the effect of like, well, like my question is like, what would help me out figuring this out more is like, what, what amount of your ether, you guys keeping aside not in NFT's. And we both basically just wrote, like, dot dot dot eth, not in NFT's question mark. Honest, befuddled way. Yeah. And again, all three of us just thought it was so funny. And like, the thing I remember about that one was like how simultaneously we both were answering it in identical ways. And it was totally truthful. Like the at the time, the idea of just sitting on eth and not putting it into energy was completely foreign to us. Yeah. And, and he he, in the meantime, was sitting on like, a relatively small and empty portfolio with a relatively big pile of eth.

Roy: 54:54

Yeah. Yeah. And then so those two

Jamie: 54:59

things from the group chat Hi, I just remembered as being very funny and a lot of fun.

Roy: 55:03

Yeah. What? Uh, yeah, that was fun. All right, um, what else do we have here? Um, all right, I think I'll jump to my last one. And that's the cooler The Rise and Fall and Rise of Zen Academy, which is, it's sort of been six months in the making now, which is kind of crazy to think about from when I very first had this idea to create ZenAcademy. And it was a sort of reaction to just this idea that I think most of us in this space have, how is how difficult it is for a newcomer just to like, get good information. And I wanted that to be the central resource. And like, my initial dream was huge. I was like, just just one go to place it'll have everything. And then I got ahead of myself and scaled back and created the discord server, and then yeah, yada, yada, yada, launched the NFT. And

Jamie: 55:55

you had a lot of kind of varying ideas of the scope of it, and the format of it, before you kind of honed in on what it is now.

Roy: 56:04

Yeah, I went back and forth a lot on many different aspects. Having sort of the higher price tier as well, as is one that I went back and forth, several times. And like, initially, I thought it'd be cool. And I was like, Ah, I shouldn't do that. And then it'd be cool. And then not a bad idea, not gonna work, eventually settled on it. And I'm very glad that I did it. Because it's, it just, it gives me a really good way, because I still get so many people every day messaging me asking if I can help them and work on their projects. And, and now it's just like, if you would like that type of thing, here's a token you can buy, join the community, you know, it's not just me as well, others helping each other. And it's sort of grown into this really, really cool community of about 110 people now. Who are just, you know, very chilled, very excited about NFT's, and focused on like, long term thinking and building and helping each other and, you know, just just being good people. And like, it's ZenAcademy is like that as well. But ZenAcademy is 10,000 plus people, it just doesn't have that same small community vibe. And it's like, I can't make you know, have these close to personal relationships with each member as I can in the 333. So I'm glad I did it. And but I'm also very glad that I sort of, I guess, tokenize, and member gated ZenAcademy, because that wasn't the original idea. Like the original idea was to keep the discord free forever. But yeah, I mean, just just the fact that there's this slide barrier to entry. Now, it just sort of keeps out a just obviously, the bots and the scammers and just the people who are shilling their own projects, which really does clean up the server a lot. But it also just means that people who are they're just like a little more invested a little more interested and dedicated to learning and just like being in a cool, good community. Yeah, it's

Jamie: 58:02

must also just make it easier for you to not have to, like, come up with a justification for why you can't, or can help on any given inquiry, you know, what I mean? You have you have a more simplified way of approaching it, you know, look, if you want this, you get this, if you want that you get that otherwise, like, I'm sorry.

Roy: 58:22

Yeah, yeah, it really does help in that respect to, and I guess, to choose a specific moment, I think was like three days ago, I woke up and I saw the floor of my ZenAcademy tokens, like point one, six, they mean to the point oh, three, three, I mean, three months ago, beginning of November, and that sort of like been hovering it like double min price, the .05 .06 for maybe a month to six weeks. And then in just a relatively short amount of time, I guess just again, supply shock started to happen. There's a finite supply, more people kept joining fewer people had extras to sell, price started going up. And then you know, a couple of people decided to buy a bunch. And you know, just seeing an NFT that I'm into, Oh, like that I sold and the people minted just like four to 5x in price. It's just, it's a really good feeling like yeah, just knowing that anyone that did take a leap of faith and buy and, you know, invest in me basically, in my project has the ability if they choose to, to sell at a significant profit. And that like the community at large is like valuing this membership token at a higher price at a significant price. The fact that it didn't, you know, it could have just stayed the same. You know, it could have tanked if people bought way too many or not too many, but like a lot more. There are a lot of cases where it doesn't necessarily go up in price. Obviously, I was very bullish on it. And I thought it was a great bet. And I think that I thought that you know, it would do well long term but I'm obviously biased and I didn't want to publicly say that but yeah, it's very validating again, I guess is another one. Another time,

Jamie: 1:00:01

I definitely felt a very similar thing, watching, you know, people that initially bought abstractive the days be able to sell them on the secondary market for, for very nice multiples of price that that felt good and validating for sure.

Roy: 1:00:16

Yeah. Which, you know, it did make me think more a little bit about, you know, there's so many project founders out there who, you know, do a lot of hard work, create a project, it might mean out, and then the full price doesn't go up and goes down. And that comp, like, that just can't be a good feeling like, unless they're like sociopaths who have just here to, you know, cash grab. But for most of the, for the most part, the good people who are building good projects, they they want the people who meant their entities to also enjoy sort of some of that financial upside as well, I think, as whatever they may be offering in the form of the actual NFT, and whatever utility and member membership benefits. So yeah, I mean, it's just last few weeks, I've been speaking to so many project founders, and people who have launched projects are in the process of launching them. And it's it's really tough out there, like, a lot of projects are struggling, which is it's just it's just sucks to see. But it's just tough, which it's necessary, I think, for the market to be tough. It was definitely too easy for too long. But um, yeah. Anyway, tangent over.

Jamie: 1:01:25

Yeah, there's a lot of projects out there and just having a good project, unfortunately, isn't. isn't all it takes to succeed. There's also just, there's stuff beyond the control of the devs that will determine whether or not a project is access. To some extent, I feel. And it's it definitely sucks that some people will make an interesting, good project and just not have it really catch on. Through no fault of their own.

Roy: 1:01:58

Yeah. All right, that was it. For me. Do you have any other highlights?

Jamie: 1:02:03

I do my last highlight here. I'm trying to scroll back to see if I can find the exact specifics of it. But anyway, I, during this art blocks, Bull Run. I had convinced my father in law stepfather, I guess, technically, but what's the what's the difference to get into NFT's basically, he he thought it was an interesting technology, he kind of bought what all of us in the NFT space are selling in terms of, of how legitimate and transformative of technology it is, and, you know, started observing and dabbling in our plots a little bit. And the first curated drop he tried to get in on was phases. And this was really during the bull market. And he was not successful in minting one, which was a bummer. And I said, Hey, you know, like, this can actually be a great opportunity for you to look in the immediate aftermath, and be able to find a piece that you like more than the one that you would make on average, and get it for a price that's very comparable to what the mid price was. And he's like, that's a great idea, Jamie. And he looked and he bought one for, I don't remember exactly what it was maybe 1.8 ether or something I don't even remember. But, you know, something, something in the point five to two eth brain. And you know, this was just at the time that everything art blocks was really getting a lot of attention. And specifically, I remember bonafide Han, who was a big art block supporter, who is really the biggest, I think still is the biggest fidenza collector was a big fan of them was also very into phases. And so a lot of people were kind of just piggybacking off of his expertise and getting into phases. And so they really started pumping. And Jim, my my stepfather in law who got this phases, he listed it for 10 eth. And as the prices were going up, and up and up, I noticed just this trend and the Block Talk sentiment, and I texted him and I go, Hey, just to let you know, it's my belief that if you do not D list this within 36 hours, it will sell for the current list price. So like if you if you're happy with that fine, but I just want you to have this piece of information. And he's like, Okay, thank you. And he thought about it and he decided, I'm just gonna leave it there. 18 hours later, it had sold something like 18 hours later for the 20th which at the time was like $32,000, which is a ton of money. And it just felt great that I had helped him do that and You know, I'm sure as you well know, and as a lot of our listeners know, you can spend a lot of time in interested in NFT's trying to get people that are not already in the space into it, and tell them about, you know, the opportunities that they could be having and stuff like that, and just kind of being ignored over and over and over again. And then to have somebody that actually listened, have such a big, nice success was cool. And he's a great guy, family man donates a lot of his time and money to charity. So it felt it felt really good to help him out like that. And for him to have kinda believed what I was saying and have it pan out that well, it was it was really cool.

Roy: 1:05:43

And now he has a full time job as the on chain monkeys number one supporter.

Jamie: 1:05:50

He's, he's in on chain monkeys project in a big way. And it seems like every single time anybody mentions him on Twitter, he's right in there mentions pumping him up. He's a big fan of that project, you know, but yeah, a big thing with that project is that they are doing a lot of charitable stuff. And he loves that. So

Roy: 1:06:08

it's a really excellent project. Everything I everything. I've heard about it and seen from it. Just yeah, it. It seems excellent to me, I finally bought in, like a week ago, because I had been seeing it for the longest time. And yeah, you know, enough is enough. A certain point.

Jamie: 1:06:28

Yeah. Yeah. So that was my last one.

Roy: 1:06:32

All right. That was I mean, I'm sure. Memory, memories 2021. Highlights.

Jamie: 1:06:44

2020 Choose predictions. So we thought it would be fun to make some predictions about NFT's in the in the coming year. And why don't you go first, tell us tell us one of your predictions.

Roy: 1:06:59

I mean, a year it's like a decade really, like just

Jamie: 1:07:01

it's crazy. Yeah. I mean, as as we talked about in the other segment, we didn't even basically know what these things were just whatever it was, yeah. So that's 10 months ago, and now we're trying to forecast a whole year.

Roy: 1:07:16

I was actually when I was thinking about the highlights. I was trying to think about what my life was like in January. I literally could not think of it. I could just like imagine. Oh, I must have just been playing some online poker. And that's it. Like, I literally have no idea what I did for January. Do you probably for what

Jamie: 1:07:38

I did, or what you did?

Roy: 1:07:40

What you did? Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Jamie: 1:07:44

And it was it was a good amount of online poker, for sure.

Roy: 1:07:47

Yeah. Anyway, predictions for 2022, I think, the first part of the year, first quarter, let's see, maybe first half, we're going to see this trend of gaming, NFC has just continued to explode. I really, I think I've been saying for the last four months or so that I think gaming, and if he's going to be the next big thing, just because of how big of a market it is and how like perfect of a use case it is for NFT's and how easy it is for, say, newcomers who may not have gotten or like appreciated these profile picture animal JPEGs to now wrap their head around the gaming assets as NFT's. So I think that it's just going to continue for the next several months, potentially the whole year, where gaming NFT projects continue to just sort of new projects come up and existing projects that execute well continued to like perform well. From like a monetary perspective. Yeah, that's my real quick. First prediction.

Jamie: 1:08:53

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people definitely are, are big on the concept of gaming, NFT's. You know, what's interesting, I find is that, you know, you have your gaming NFT's. But then it seems like so many of the successful NFT projects that aren't gaming, NFT's, eventually they just end up with a good game. Like if you look at the roadmaps of so many of these things, gaming ends up being on there. So it's, it's sort of interesting to see that. And it'll also be interesting to see, you know, how much of that interoperability we always are talking about might end up existing with, you know, a gaming NFT project. And then, you know, the more profile picture type projects that that can integrate into it in some type of way. That'll be interesting. So my first prediction was that I think a lot more businesses are going to be getting into NFT's in a big way, in sort of the way that we've seen Nike and Adidas very recently do and also the Sacramento Kings did a project recently, which is an NBA basketball team here. Right? And you that, I doubt you did a lie. Um, they're not a big team. Yeah. But I do think congratulations. Thank you. So what are you seeing Emma's dad? I imagine? Yeah. Okay, let's throw back. But anyway, I do think specifically sports teams are a really great you know, introductory sort of big business that that can utilize them in an interesting way to just kind of create new fan experiences. And, and have a big built in market for these NFT's. And have people that are kind of interested in buying sort of almost anything new and interesting that comes out from them, just because they want to support the team and be a part of it. But then they can kind of give access and, and benefits with the ownership of these NFT's in all sorts of interesting ways, because of what they already have, in terms of intellectual property and or meet and greets with the with the players and signed jerseys, there's just so many possibilities that are very easy for them to do that, I think, you know, specifically sports teams, but in general, lots of big media businesses and stuff are an apparel too, you know, which has already come in are going to be getting into it in the way that, you know, Arizona iced tea and Adidas and Nike, just a couple did this year, it's going to be just every single week, it feels like to me, we're gonna have new big businesses buying some NFT's releasing some NFT's. I mean, I guess Budweiser is another another example of one that did this year, but I think it's gonna be huge this year.

Roy: 1:11:55

Yeah. No, I think that's absolutely right. It's like, really is just still the tip of the iceberg in terms of just sort of NFT's appeal to everyone now, like, not like not that everyone's interested in them. But like, every brand can basically find a reason to integrate NFT's and find people that will be interested in and find a use case for them, you know, whether it's music, movies, merch, you know, anything, basically. Yeah, that actually ties into one of my predictions a bit, which is that I think, Tao Tao is like, gonna be like, one of the big talks of the year, or like one of the big things that happen next year, like, obviously, dowser thing, they've been picking up a little bit momentum towards the end of this year, but we haven't really seen them, like I think take off to even close to their full potential yet. But like, more and more people are starting to understand them now. I mean, still, even in the NFT space, and even in the crypto space, a lot of people still don't fully, like really understand Dows and what they are or what they do, every day, I hear people ask, like, what is a Dell? Like? It's not just very common knowledge yet, but I think yeah, it's getting there.

Jamie: 1:13:06

And and so many, it feels like so many of the things that are sort of called Dows. Now, yeah, not not really doubt. And I think we're gonna have, you know, an increase in the number of those but also really an increase in Dows, that are, are behaving more like Dows theoretically ought to it also be interesting to see kind of how the legal landscape you know, starts to view them if we'll get more clarity, and more places that are very friendly to them, sort of like Wyoming, specifically in the US has come out as

Roy: 1:13:42

I hope so. I think it's, I mean, it's inevitable, it will take time, but I think it's not like I don't think Dow's going anywhere. And like, neither is the legal system for for nations. So they're going to have to figure out a way to integrate with one another.

Jamie: 1:13:58

Yeah, so one of the things Sorry, do you got something?

Roy: 1:14:03

Ah, yeah, I just want to like just you were mentioning sports teams, and I think we're gonna see a Dao by like a big sports team next year.

Jamie: 1:14:09

I think that's that would be fucking awesome.

Roy: 1:14:11

something's gonna happen. Like they're already talking. There's links down, they're gonna buy a golf club, like a top 100 PGA golf club, or at least try to rich, you know, there's not that far away from buying a sports team.

Jamie: 1:14:24

Yeah, the thing that I was gonna say is that, um, you know, when I've thought about the way that the legal system is going to have to wrangle with with a lot of this crypto stuff and sort of NFT's in particular. It doesn't seem like you know, if you want to stop people from having unregistered securities, that's, like pretty fine to me. But it's so easy for them to, in my opinion, be just like crazily infringing on people's first amendment rights. Just to go Like, This artist is not allowed to have their art be traded as a token like that. I think I think there's gonna be a lot of pushback if they try to go down that path too far. As long as you know, crypto and entities are able to keep onboarding more people into it. And and I think they'll have very valid, you know, arguments legally speaking against government overreach on that sort of thing.

Roy: 1:15:32

Yeah, I agree with that, I think it's gonna be gratified to see

Jamie: 1:15:36

ya Dows seem a little bit more dicey in a way where it's, it almost seems like they're, like replacing organizations and businesses, without sort of the legal framework in a way that NFT's to me are, excuse me, a bit more open ended and individual that makes it more, you know, easy to just kind of have that first amendment argument, supporting them in a way that Dows is going to be tougher, and you're going to have to kind of find more, maybe specifically business friendly jurisdictions to go, you know what, these are valid, were going to have kind of these rules forum, and we're going to be a place where you can set up doubts, and we will consider it legitimate.

Roy: 1:16:37

That was my prediction. I think.

Jamie: 1:16:40

My next prediction was that the amount of media coverage that NFT's got this year, is going to only go up and it's going to go up a lot. But also specifically, it's going to be considered much more legitimate. There's been a kind of a lot of attention on NFT's this year, I think, but so much of it from the people crafting those stories, and the people consuming them stories are looking down on NFTs and the people that are into NFT's. And I think we're going to see a very positive change in the sentiment from the stories that come out. And the people consuming the stories, I think, I think the idea that they are valid and not stupid is going to become much more widely accepted this year.

Roy: 1:17:37

I hope you're right. I think you're right. I could conceivably see it go the other way. Where but yeah,

Jamie: 1:17:45

to me, I think what has happened so much this year, is that people have misconstrued picture file for NFT in such a blanket way that I think as more and more things happen with more dynamic use cases of having them be sort of the equivalent of paywalls and memberships. And just other use cases of them. I think it'll it'll open up people to realize that NFT's are just a sort of blank box way of representing ownership in a digital decentralized way. And they can kind of be anything I do think that is going to get out there.

Roy: 1:18:31

Yeah, I think it's inevitable, I guess. It's just the tech is so revolutionary, and so many, I guess, I don't know, if you're gonna call it visionaries are just so many people who see it are already in sort of like, positions that will be able to sort of tell this narrative, not even a narrative, just share this information and perspective about the tech and integrate it into whatever they're doing. Like, we're seeing it with the big brands we're seeing with celebrities, you know, that's kind of like the whole world is in large part for better or worse. People look up to brands and celebrities to like, Yeah, sort of influence their actions, I guess, their thoughts and everything. And justly or subconsciously, yeah. So we have brands getting on board. We have celebrities getting on board. We have a lot of like just the smartest and brightest minds in in tech getting on board and in finance, and and it's just an artist to getting on board and it really is everyone like in gaming gaming companies as well as gaming players. Yeah, it's hot. It's hard to imagine being more bullish on NFT's but it seems like every day I get bullish on NFT's. Yeah. Yeah, I

Jamie: 1:19:53

mean, I, I basically feel like I'll never get less bullish on the company. concept of NFT's. But I don't know that I'll ever be able to have the sort of confidence that you can kind of get into them and not do a ton of work and research and be able to profit on them the way, you know, those of us that were around in the in the first half of this year, we're lucky enough to be able to do like that kind of bullishness where it almost doesn't matter what you're doing. And just the difference between supply and demand is so great that you're going to succeed that that to me seems gone. But the the increasing acceptance and the amount of just money and time and human labor and and thought and acceptance and all of that. of NFT's that's just only ever going to go up as far as I can tell.

Roy: 1:20:51

Yeah, no, I agree. We're never going to get it. Good. To get back to the just the mania days of, you know, major in July, August, September, where you could just throw a dart at an NFT board. And, you know, you get a collection, eight times out of 10

Jamie: 1:21:10

Yeah. And by the way, you you would hit one of the four things on the dartboard. Yeah, I don't I mean, now, it's the dartboard is the size of a country. And there's 30,000 different projects that could head on.

Roy: 1:21:22

Yeah, I mean, but but like, the opportunities is still amazing. And of course, I

Jamie: 1:21:26

mean, you know, every two weeks or something like that, there's a project that is going on, it is 50 axing, it seems like

Roy: 1:21:35

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, not to mention many existing projects continuing to, like, go up 20% A week or something like that.

Jamie: 1:21:46

Mm hmm. Yeah, she's very there's for sure gonna be more winners that come out and and more things that are sort of treading water now that that will catch that spark.

Roy: 1:21:57

Yeah. I have a roll these two together, I think we're gonna see another search for generative art. It's just such a perfect use case of blockchain technology that I honestly don't see. As a as a, as a medium going anywhere. But up and growing in popularity, and just as more people enter the space as more people research, NFT's and art and NFT's, you know, artists and non artists alike collectors. Yeah.

Jamie: 1:22:33

Yeah, one of the things that's interesting about it, to me is how much it plays to the strengths of sort of a technical left brained type of person, in terms of being able to do it. And I think we're maybe going to find out how, how much late in artistic creativity and ability there is in so many of these people that society has kind of put into this other box over there.

Roy: 1:22:59

Yeah, that's a really good point. And, yeah, I think we're gonna see just all over the place, we're gonna see a lot of just talent unlocked in various industries from all over the world, which is really exciting to see, just because of what's possible with you know, people can now get paid for what they do for the talents in a way that was never really possible before. Or at least not to this extent. Um, yeah, so I think generative art will we'll have another surge, I don't think we'll see another mania stage like we saw without blocks in the middle of this year. I do think our blocks prices will go up. It will trend up probably this year. Definitely. In the long term. I'm still very, very bullish. I saw that year in review thing today, where for metal link, and it's like, amount I've spent on NFT's top collections. Number two was, I think mute nips at like 22 ether or something. And then like 345 were like Tara forms with Australis math castles. The board apes because I guess I bought some mutants on secondary or dogs on secondary, I don't know, exactly, plus my original apps. But number one, and they were like 20 to 15 to 28th. Each number one was off blocks. I like 280/8. And it's just like, that's how bullish I've been on blocks all year. And, you know, it's been dipping so much over the last few months. I haven't sold anything I've just been buying because I still believe the long term. It's the last

Jamie: 1:24:33

like week or Yeah, it's going on. Yeah, it's really kind of started to turn it around again. Well, we'll see how long that lasts. If it does do all that, but it's definitely showing signs of life all of a sudden.

Roy: 1:24:47

Yeah. Which is nice to see. I mean, I guess the axe obviously season is basically over now. Right? Which is, was definitely probably a bigger thing than I thought it would be. Just

Jamie: 1:24:57

yeah, well because you live in your god I have no taxes as you always have.

Roy: 1:25:04

I have been very fortunate with tax. Another one I wanted to loop in, which is soda related, but not fully is that I think AI related NFT's will have a really big moment. Next year at some point, we're sort of seeing it a little bit at the moment, over the last couple of months with AI odd things in the form of eponym, and bado. And then even non even AI that's not art related, like altered state machines, like Football Association and a Lithia. With the INFP personality things. They're just getting more attention. People are doing cool things with artificial intelligence and NFT's. And I think that it's just going to continue to get bigger and better and more awesome. And we're going to have like a phase I think of AI stuff that is more significant than anything we've seen so far.

Jamie: 1:25:59

Yeah, I mean, I feel like if you if you kind of pulled a big segment of the population of very smart, forward thinking tech people, you know, and and just ignore all this NFT stuff. One of the biggest things you're going to hear about from a lot of smart people is how big of a deal AI is and how it's only going to get bigger. So I can I can just only imagine that within the NFT space as well. It will it will continue to increase in importance.

Roy: 1:26:34

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Jamie: 1:26:36

Yeah. I would love to collect a bottle next year. That's sort of on my goals less I don't, I don't know how much the prices will go up or down, or how much capital I'll have available. But it's, it's something that I would like to be able to do. We'll see you know how much they've been going for lately. I think the last one went for like 20, which is definitely bigger than I would realistically be able to afford. But I think maybe one or two before that was like nine or something like that, which is getting much more reasonable. Yeah. But they do one a week still tough. Yes, one a week. Nice. Actually, this, I'm a little bit sidetrack here, but I was thinking about like, the idea of stuff like art blocks and nouns, and borrow where you kind of have these continuous releases. And to me, it seems like it's it's a reliable that you either kind of stop and kind of force that supply shock all the sudden, that makes the market maybe value stuff more, because because they no longer have to worry about continuing to increase the supply. Or you just keep making them so much. And that means that you are such a big thing at some point if like, you know, if it's 40 years from now, and bato was still able to put out things and people are still buying it. Same with nouns. Same with art blocks, that means that this is such a big institution and cultural thing to me that that like kind of also is a bullish thing. So like unless they kind of just fade away. You know, that that was kind of a new thought I've been having about these about these things where the supply just keeps going up, ad infinitum.

Roy: 1:28:29

Yeah, that's a really, I think that's a good way of looking at it. And I think with I mean, nouns is a very interesting example because it's like membership of a Dow, where the Treasury is made up of like all the previous bids, minus what they're spent, but you can do some real math and figure potentially what it's worth quote, unquote, whereas with our blocks, it's a little more just, yeah, a lot more unknowns, I guess. But I do think that it just seems to me so likely that they're going to keep producing Oh, like releasing art from artists who are going to keep producing it who are going to want to keep releasing out on up looks. And it doesn't seem like there's going to be a shortage of people wanting to collect on up looks. It just seems like more people entering the space enjoying generative art. Maybe prices come down. I just bought my keyboard. Oh, boy.

Jamie: 1:29:33

Keep got we're fine.

Roy: 1:29:34

Maybe prices come down a bit. But op Lux is an institution I don't think is going anywhere. And if it you know five years from now is just this big institution now that has been releasing generative art five years, just the early stuff that was released in year one in in the first few months and that was there will just be thinking I think, you know, there'll be just luxury goods and luxury art, like, just, just also just, I don't know, I'm a huge Yeah, I'm not gonna gush about objects anymore. But um, I think what you said makes a lot of sense about just keeping on releasing things is not necessarily a bad thing.

Jamie: 1:30:21

Yeah, you're increasing supply. But if the market is able to swallow that supply, and you just keep putting it out, that that, to me means like, this is sort of a weird comparison, maybe, but like, you know, take a big sports league, like the NBA, or the NFL, they just keep putting out more and more and more games, right? There's every, every week, there's more games, but the advertisers still want to pay for advertising during those games, because these are big cultural institutions. And, and sort of the reason they're big cultural institutions is because they didn't just stop in 1980. And go, well, that's, that's enough of the basketball, you know, we don't want to, we don't want to dilute the brand. So let's just start, you know, they just they kept doing it. And you know, and people kept liking it. And they became very big things. Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, we are off topic here. Yeah.

Roy: 1:31:15

What's your next prediction?

Jamie: 1:31:17

My next prediction was that there's going to be more blue chip projects that we have never even heard of. And that a lot of the projects that are sort of pseudo blue chips right now are going to wither away. And I. So I'm thinking of like, a lot of the projects and like the point three, to maybe, let's say, two and a half, or even like five ether floors, there's a lot of projects. I mean, obviously, that's a very big range. Yeah. But there's a ton of projects in that range where like, you know, people are always going, Oh, what's the number three project and, and so I'm sort of thinking of all of those ones fighting for that, it seems to me that so much of the people that are ever gonna care about those are really the people that are already here. And there's just not enough people here right now to support that many distinct different communities. And so I think a lot of those are just unfortunately, going to have the communities and the developers just kind of abandon them. And, and the attention and money is going to coalesce into the ones that stick around, plus the completely new stuff that is able to capture the Zeitgeist and attract the completely new money, because I think the new people coming into NFT's are going to be sort of interested in some of the stuff that exists, but are going to very largely want their own newer things, rather than just go, Oh, I'm gonna buy. And I'm not taking shots at anything, but like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy these dead fellows or bottos, or whatever other projects that are like, you know, definitely have a following and have a non low floor price. But just aren't, aren't that top of the line project. That seems like, oh, that's definitely going to still be around in five years, in the way that maybe punks and apes have done.

Roy: 1:33:17

No, I fully agree with that. I think that. Yeah, like, there's just so many projects, and there are just so many new projects being released as well.

Jamie: 1:33:29

Yeah. And if you, if you just do like Venn diagrams of the people that own these projects, it's like, there's, there's, the communities are not that different, for the most part, because it's it's a lot of people that own pieces from different ones. And so I think the amount of sort of different real communities that that can be supported with the current population size in NFT's is just not big enough to support the amount of projects that we're all kind of juggling as potentially successful projects, you know,

Roy: 1:34:01

yeah. No, I completely agree with that. Yeah, there's just gonna be so many cool new things as well that new people are going to just flock to and, you know, it's partially because the price is going to be so much cheaper, you know, they could mean something, point, one, maybe less point or three even, and get into a new community, with other people who are new to this space, you know, rather than joining a community for like, three eth, that is, you know, a bunch of people who have been here for a year. And it might not jive with them. At that price. Yeah,

Jamie: 1:34:37

it's just, it's so much more accessible to, to kind of throw $100 at a project like when you're new to NF.T's. The idea of of going while this is this is not a top of the line project, but it is going to cost you $9,000 to get one and it's and if, again, this is not the top of the line project, but like maybe it'll work out yeah. That's a big fucking ask for somebody that has avoided NFT's until now and wants to dip their toe in it like no, come on, they're gonna buy something, I think very new and very cheap.

Roy: 1:35:15

This sort of ties in to my next prediction, which is that layer twos are really gonna, like, come into their own next year. I think that I mean, gas on eth main net is just prohibitive to so many people. And it's it's stopping mass adoption, basically. I mean, yes, there are other blockchains. And you know, Saloner is seeing a surge to seeing surge. I think next year, we're gonna see a surge,

Jamie: 1:35:43

a lot about flow lately. Two people were kind of gathered hearing about that, too. Yeah. And I only use it once. I was terrible. But that was a long time ago.

Roy: 1:35:51

Yeah, I've never actually used it. But anyway, I think we're gonna see just better, like user experiences in terms of like bridging assets to and from layer twos, better marketplaces on layer twos. Just better infrastructure. And yeah,

Jamie: 1:36:11

we're gonna have to have, we're gonna have to have better user interfaces for all of this stuff. Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, back end, better scaling solutions, like click your addressing here is gonna have to be a thing for sure.

Roy: 1:36:27

Yeah, I guess sort of, on this note of you heard, we're gonna get layer twos, we're gonna get real open see competitors as well. And that's potentially it has a potential to like, significantly change the landscape of 2022, depending on Well, yeah, I'm

Jamie: 1:36:44

actually surprised. I didn't put anything about marketplaces. But that's a great one.

Roy: 1:36:47

Yeah. Like, I think Coinbase is now saying March is when they're hoping to launch? Which, yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see what they come out with. I don't think it'll be the quote unquote, open sea killer that everyone is hoping and expecting it to be. But

Jamie: 1:37:04

so it's it's us only at first we know, right? Yeah. But do we? Have you ever seen any data about what percentage of these active NFT wallets are US versus not us? Because I don't think I've ever seen anything like that. I have not be curious, though, cuz that would be informative.

Roy: 1:37:20

It's got to be 10s of millions still. So I think, I don't know if that means. Well, I think they have like 60 to 70 million total users. And I reckon it's like 10 to 30 million of those us uses.

Jamie: 1:37:35

Oh, but I meant of the people that are already in NFT's.

Roy: 1:37:39

Oh, yes. I don't really know about that.

Jamie: 1:37:44

Because if if somehow it was like only 10% USAA. seems impossible, then it would kind of indicate to me that maybe? Actually, I don't even know like it. On the one hand, it seems like that would mean Coinbase isn't going to be big. Because it's it's not us people that are into NFT's. But on the other hand, maybe it means it'll be huge, because the US is such an untapped NFT market. Like who fucking knows?

Roy: 1:38:08

Yeah. I can give some sort of insight into this. The members in my Discord are 38% from the US since like, 50s.

Jamie: 1:38:21

That's definitely something. Yeah.

Roy: 1:38:23

So. Yeah, it's sounds about right. Like, what

Jamie: 1:38:29

are our listeners are right around 50%? I think. Yeah, it's usually like 48% or something, if

Roy: 1:38:35

I'm not mistaken. Sounds about right. Um, you know, what's crazy is the percentage of Australians in the NFT space, it's just like, for the population size of Australia, compared to basically every other country in the world. It seems like every fourth person I talked to is Australia. Like, yeah, yeah.

Jamie: 1:38:58

Thailand is maybe the only country that's punching above its weight more than Australia in terms of FTEs.

Roy: 1:39:05

Yeah, they have a huge population there. Right. Thailand. I think so.

Jamie: 1:39:10

I don't know about huge. You might be thinking of Indonesia, if you really mean huge.

Roy: 1:39:15

I've seen compared to Australia, so 70 million. But yeah, they're definitely punching above that weight.

Jamie: 1:39:23

70 million is not small. You're right about that.

Roy: 1:39:25

Yeah, I mean, Australia is like 25 million for text.

Jamie: 1:39:31

But it seems like just such a crazily high proportion of NFT artists are from Taiwan. Yeah.

Roy: 1:39:35

My probably my favorite NFT artist pondering is from Thailand. He created the Zen he created a piece present Academy and he's creating a oh, he has already created a tweet about that. We're gonna be dropping everyone tomorrow. Very excited about do you have any more predictions?

Jamie: 1:39:53

I only have one more prediction and this tied in a little bit to my media coverage one where I was I was touching on people thinking that NFT's are just picture files right now, I think we're going to see a lot more interesting and dynamic NFT's that are very clearly showing people not in the space, but also just, you know, those of us in this space, that that's not what NFT's are, and they can be so much more, I think there's going to be a lot of that. Because, you know, so much of what has happened this year, was kind of people copying earlier projects, and a lot of it done sort of cynically to try and just capture that easy money on the mint. And then now we've got like such big supply, that that is no longer such a feasible thing to do. So I think in order to actually have a successful project, you're just going to have to do different, you're gonna have to differentiate yourself more and more as time goes on. And just the true believers and understandings of NFT's, I think, are going to have interesting ideas that they that they put work into, and make these interesting projects. And it's like, I'm being sort of very vague, because I don't necessarily have that many specific ideas for what that even means. But, but I do believe there's gonna be a lot of NFT's that are very clearly not a picture file in the way that so many of us, and and more so, so many people outside of this space have been conditioned to think that NFT's are.

Roy: 1:41:37

Yeah, just the possibilities are so endless. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to sort of predict what they're going to be because we don't know, because I haven't been invented yet. Yeah, people have great ideas, but like to give one, it's such

Jamie: 1:41:53

an open ended technology that it really is. It's limited, basically, just by human ingenuity, you know, the Ethereum is like the the virtual machine at the center of the network, although saying at the center kind of is a disservice to the decentralized nature of it. But anyway, you know, it's, it's, it's Turing complete, so you can kind of do anything in it. You know, aside from the potential limitations of gas fees, and computation or whatever, the possibilities are truly endless. So it's, it'll be so exciting to see what people are able to do.

Roy: 1:42:30

I can't wait. People. Yeah, I mean, this year, people ordered really cool things. And it's just, it's just gonna get more and more mind blowing, I think. Yeah, time goes on. Yep. All right. My last prediction, I think we're gonna see, a blow off tops is like a general market prediction, unlike anything we've seen yet, which will probably make August look a bit silly, I don't think it will necessarily be like, specific to OP blocks or profile picture projects or something. But I just think we're going to get a like protocols where people can take like, collateralize NFT's, like instantly and get like 20% to 50% liquidity, just, you know, by these automatic market makers, basically, that have figured out an algorithm a way to protect themselves and to give out loans, you know, low ish interest rates better than NFC phi, and Stata and other p2p protocols, where, you know, the user isn't paying gas necessarily for each transaction, or, you know, at least one of the users and paying gas. And people are gonna love it. You know, it's just like, everyone is always talking about how they wish they had more ether, they're struggling for liquidity. They want to mint this, but they gotta sell this first. And when there's a nice, easy, safe option, a relatively safe option for people to you know, unlock this capital that's locked in these you know, illiquid assets. Yeah, we're gonna take up Yeah, people gonna leverage and like we say it in regular crypto, people love to leverage, and they're going to do it, and it's going to create this massive liquidity unlocking and prices will probably go up in just across the board. And it'll probably create this like self fulfilling prophecy where people see prices going up, and they're like, oh, I don't want to, you know, FOMO will hit, I don't want to miss the boat, they will then you know, some people will then collateralize their assets and get liquidity and buy in and so on and so forth. And then eventually, it will come crashing down.

Jamie: 1:44:36

You know, there is a big thing where like, you know, almost all of us have projects that we kind of want to get and where the price is like, close to what we think is reasonable, but we would love for it to pull back. And then, you know, a lot of times I know I felt this where it starts to get that momentum and you go, this might be my last chance to get this And so that can kind of create a lot of that FOMO. Yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying. Now, I'll ask you, did I talk about the thing that I read about Bitcoin prices? Maybe three weeks ago? And how like, in order for the bitcoin price to have compounded at the rate that it did, since its inception, the only way that it could realistically do it was to go up way too fast, and then down way too fast and over and over again. Yeah, so So I feel like that same dynamic is liable to kind of happen here, in sort of the same way you're talking about, especially as opportunities to lever increase.

Roy: 1:45:40

Yeah, I actually wrote in my notes for these predictions that like, if slash, when I see this happening, it might be the first time that I like, I truly take significant profits from NFT's and like, switch heavily into like eth, or even stable coins, just because if I see people, people like really leveraging themselves, I'm gonna be very scared of a huge crash, basically.

Jamie: 1:46:05

Yeah, it'll be interesting for sure. To see how that happens from these automated ones that you're kind of talking about and, and also, whether we'll see like a big increase in fractionalization, and peer to peer lending as well, too, because, you know, a lot of the stuff that's so cool about these decentralized protocols is that you can offer all these different services and the people that this sort of specifics of this way of, of monetizing your NFT can go here, and the ones that like this can go here, and you know, just the different ones will be able to attract people with different value portfolios, and, and that are willing to accept all sorts of different terms that it could just kind of hit the market broadly. And without any of them being like, so big, and sort of the reason behind it, just that there's so many decent options, that kind of, you know, each captures 10 15% of the NFT market or whatever.

Roy: 1:47:16

Yeah, it's, I do think it's almost inevitable. But yeah, like, people are working on these protocols. And when they're out, people are gonna want to use them. And it's just people will then use them irresponsibly, and the market will get leveraged and people will make a lot of money and lose a lot of money.

Jamie: 1:47:40

Yeah, I'm so I'm so interested in what will be the catalysts for up movements and down movements, you know, what I mean, there's like so many potential things, you got the eight coin, you got the coin base, you have like, people paying off their tax bills and not having to worry about that anymore. But also people kind of seeing their tax bills and having to sell to actually do it. Because you know, a lot of people were preemptively doing it in December, we saw a lot of that tax loss harvesting and stuff. But I think there's a lot of people that are have kicked the can down the road and will only find out later and then they'll they'll have to sell so there's just there's going to be so many big catalysts for up and down movements, that it'll be just really interesting to see how it all plays out. But it's going to be an exciting year that that I know for sure. That's not a prediction. That's a fact.

Roy: 1:48:27

That's fact. It's, yeah, that'd be exciting decade. 2022. Yep. Yeah,

Jamie: 1:48:35

this has been 2022 prediction to the printer predictions. Should we say maybe, thanks to our listeners who have been here with us for our first year as podcasters

Roy: 1:48:47

I think we should I'm still recording are we gonna keep this in and thank them, or are we gonna do a whole lot?

Jamie: 1:48:53

Yeah, well, I was asked I thought I think so.

Roy: 1:48:55

Okay, let's keep this in. Let's I mean, thank you. Like we thank

Jamie: 1:48:59

you. I agree. Let's thank them. Thank you very much, shall we say in a couple other languages to gaseous Arigato.

Roy: 1:49:12

Don Keshawn took me way too long

Jamie: 1:49:16

to get that. Yeah. I know Italian what is it?

Roy: 1:49:20

Uh

Jamie: 1:49:24

Yes. grassy. Yeah, see? Yeah. etc, etc, etc,

Roy: 1:49:29

etc. Yeah, we started this podcast was like five months ago.

Jamie: 1:49:35

Yeah, Dad did maybe six or seven recordings before we ever actually had an episode.

Roy: 1:49:39

Yeah. It's been a wild ride. But we really appreciate everyone that listens. Just you know, if you're a first time listener, if you listen to every episode, thank you. We do

Jamie: 1:49:49

and we love hearing from the listeners too, when they tell us just what they like and all that it feels good.

Roy: 1:49:55

Or even if they don't like I mean, any feedback early Yeah, I

Jamie: 1:50:01

prefer the positive, but I guess so do I tell us what you don't like? Sure.

Roy: 1:50:05

But you know, occasionally, yeah, we get good constructive criticism. Yes, that that's tailored, has caused us to maybe change our approach occasionally.

Jamie: 1:50:15

And we're still figuring out a little bit because Oh, yeah, you know, there's, there's no rules.

Roy: 1:50:20

There's no rules. We've never done a podcast before. We've never done anything like in media before. And we don't put a lot of, I mean, it's not like we spend a lot of time trying to go on high production quality and plan out these things. It's just, you know, we love talking NFTs, we come up with like a brief outline and list of what we're gonna talk about. We jump on and start recording and then we talk about NFT's. And I think that's yeah,

Jamie: 1:50:45

we have it be fairly loose and conversational, and it seems like the listeners do too, for the most part. So we're that'll maintain and the way we structure it, and how much it's structured is the thing that we kind of tinker with a little bit.

Roy: 1:51:01

Yeah. Well, Happy New Year's as well. We should probably say

Jamie: 1:51:04

that happy new year to, to you and to our listeners. Happy New Year. Thanks for listening.

Intro: 1:51:16

Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh Two Bored Apes, talking NFT's, De-fi, and some random stuff! uh uh uh uh